1878 8TF New VAM

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Mike7E
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

1878 8TF New VAM

Post by Mike7E » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:16 pm

I originally attributed this coin as a VAM-2 when purchased back in September 2020 but looked again in December for some nagging reason. While VAM-2 is still the closest they are not the same. My coin has 3 feathers added to the area between the right wing and the leg and two on the left like VAM-2 and several others. However my coin’s feather placement, size and angles don’t match the VAM-2 pictures on VAMWorld 2.0, those of several Certified VAM-2 pictures from the Heritage Auctions website or any other 8TF listed. The VAMWorld VAM-2 pic shows 3 narrow feathers on the right wing side while on the Certified versions they look wider. My coin has 3 feathers well separated from each other and the eagle’s leg. The two feathers at the eagle’s left wing and leg are also different on my coin as they curve up, have a small connecting section between them (a third feather?) and a gap between the right feather and the wing. The VAM-2 left feathers curve down and there is a die scratch from wing to arrowhead on them that is not on my coin. Also the VAM-2 pictures for NE in ONE show doubling below and above the N crossbar and the tops of the N and the E are strongly doubled towards the rim, whereas the doubling on my coin is below the N crossbar only. All VAM-2 version pictures have the die scratch on the left wing which my coin does not have.

The notch doubling at the top of the 3rd left obverse star is seen on the VAM-2 examples but not on my coin.

Features from my coin are listed below: Some features below would be too minor to list however might help to rule out other known dies.

Obverse:
1 Doubled left side and bottom right of lower crossbar – blobs.
8 Slight doubling inside lower left of top and bottom loops.
7 Doubling right side of upright.
8 Doubling left inside of bottom loop, die chips at right where two loops meet with broken right edge on outside lower loop.
MNS 1878 8TF a Bottom 1.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF a Bottom 1.jpg (203.02 KiB) Viewed 369 times
MNS 1878 8TF b 1st 8.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF b 1st 8.jpg (192.67 KiB) Viewed 369 times
MNS 1878 8TF c 7.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF c 7.jpg (202.04 KiB) Viewed 369 times
MNS 1878 8TF d 2nd 8.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF d 2nd 8.jpg (204.31 KiB) Viewed 369 times
Small blob bottom 5th left star, two small blobs 6th left star. No stars doubled
PLURIBUS: Deterioration or damage bottom P, minor doubling left bottom and top right R, deteriorated bottom left B,
MNS 1878 8TF e PLURIBUS B.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF e PLURIBUS B.jpg (199.44 KiB) Viewed 369 times
(More pictures next post)
UNUM: Minor doubling bottom feet of N but crossbar not doubled, minor doubling bottom U, minor doubling both feet of M
EYE: Small dot at eyelid
EAR slight doubling right side of middle ?
M: Designer initial light and hair underneath over polished
LIBERTY: Slight doubling L I; E connected to R at base

Reverse: Type A1
UNITED: Doubling tops of all letters towards rim, Berry near N blurry, no die break from D to wing
STATES: Doubling top right of top serif S, top of T, top left base of A, top of T lower right curve of S and tip serif.
OF: bottom right leg of F mushy, no blob on F
ONE: N bottom left blob, doubling below crossbar only
Three small separated feathers added on eagle’s right and two tiny feathers left wing between leg and bottom of wing. The three feathers are well separated from each other and the leg and of progressive length. The Left wing added feathers are curved upward have a small connecting section between them (a third feather?) and have a wide gap to the wing from last feather.
Tips of arrowheads are deteriorated.

I created a table eliminating every reverse type but it won’t paste into the site software so I am creating a summary of only the reverses with three feathers on the right wing and two feathers on the left wing sides, VAM numbers listed. My comments for each type are listed in italics.

A1b -“Three small feathers added on eagle's right and two on eagle's left side between leg and bottom of wing” ONE: N doubled above and below crossbar and towards rim at tops of N; all three cross bars of E doubled towards rim at top VAM-2. My coin: The feathers both sides are different and the N in ONE is doubled on the bottom crossbar only.
A1c – “Three small feathers added on eagle's right” (middle one almost as long as longest one) “and two on eagle's left side between leg and bottom of wing.” Also has blob on F of OF. VAMs 3, 4, 5, 14-6, 14-7, 14-11, 14-12, 14-14, 14-17, 14-18. My coin: Middle feather not as long. No blob on F and right foot of F is deteriorated.
A1h - “Three small feathers added on eagle's right and two one eagle's left side between leg and bottom of wing.” VAM-9 My coin: Not a comma feather.
A1f - “Three small feathers added on eagle's right (progressively proportioned) and two on eagle's left side (one similar to spike feather) between leg and bottom of wing.” “Eagle's right leg and right wing doubled on outside.” VAMs-12, 16, 17. My coin: Right side: Left most feather much smaller. Left side: Right feather much smaller. No leg doubling.
A1k - “Three small feathers added on eagle’s right (longest curves away from leg) and two on left side between leg and bottom of wing.” VAMs 14-1, 14-10. My coin: Right side feathers very different.
A1l - “One long and two short feathers added on eagle’s right and two on eagle’s left side between leg and bottom of wing.” Left feathers larger VAMs 14-2, 14-15, 14-20. My coin: Right side Three feathers of progressive size. Left side feathers small
A1m - “Three small feathers added on eagle's right (thick and fill the gap) and two on eagle's left side between leg and bottom of wing similar to A1b but wings have not been polished as much.” VAM 14-3. My coin: Right side three well separated feathers, not as thick. Left side two feathers much smaller with bigger gap on right.
A1i - “Three small feathers added on eagle's right (middle feather almost as long as right one) and two on eagle's left side between leg and bottom of wing. VAM 14-4 My coin: Middle feather mid length of three.

Mike7E
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1878 8TF New VAM

Post by Mike7E » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:19 pm

MNS 1878 8TF g LIBERTY.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF g LIBERTY.jpg (188.84 KiB) Viewed 367 times
Reverse
MNS 1878 8TF h OF.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF h OF.jpg (202.33 KiB) Viewed 367 times
MNS 1878 8TF i NE.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF i NE.jpg (214.52 KiB) Viewed 367 times
MNS 1878 8TF j feathers right wing.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF j feathers right wing.jpg (411.14 KiB) Viewed 367 times
MNS 1878 8TF k feathers left wing.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF k feathers left wing.jpg (208.25 KiB) Viewed 367 times

Mike7E
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1878 8TF New VAM

Post by Mike7E » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:22 pm

MNS 1878 8TF l Arrows.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF l Arrows.jpg (193.82 KiB) Viewed 366 times
MNS 1878 8TF m Full obv.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF m Full obv.jpg (302.13 KiB) Viewed 366 times
MNS 1878 8TF n Full Rev.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF n Full Rev.jpg (319.1 KiB) Viewed 366 times
MNS 1878 8TF o.jpg
MNS 1878 8TF o.jpg (221.67 KiB) Viewed 366 times

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1878 8TF New VAM

Post by Vam-mysterio » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:03 pm

Yeap
Vam 2

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