I need help with 1889 P near date dbl ear

[demetri]

I started on the obverse and believe it is a near date if anyone can confirm, and then used the attribution guide for date position but the only Near Date (which also has a Doubled Ear) is VAM-27 however, this example is missing the obv Marker inside ribbon bow and all Secondary Pick-ups, only date position and ear are similar. Making it even harder is I also found a double cap by the ribbon (ribbon too is doubled at end) and further up on back of the cap as well as the right boil and leaves near it. So I cant identify the obverse OR the reverse. Could this be part of the V27 or did I get lucky and find a new vam near date?? I sure hope so...........

boll leaf.jpg (136.89 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

bolls-1.jpg (159.42 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

bolls-2.jpg (148.7 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

cap-2.jpg (113.76 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

cap-3.jpg (134.42 KiB) Viewed 1111 times

[demetri]

date

date.jpg (143.35 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

ear-1.jpg (139.01 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

ear-2.jpg (160.49 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

obv.jpg (180.78 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

rev.jpg (191.67 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

[demetri]

Some reverse images

feathers.jpg (120.44 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

inside feathers.jpg (147.46 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

wing.jpg (137.12 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

D.jpg (127.72 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

bow.jpg (121.28 KiB) Viewed 1109 times

[demetri]

Without mag

20230608_161053.jpg (108.04 KiB) Viewed 1104 times

Without mag

20230608_161049.jpg (100.92 KiB) Viewed 1104 times

Also i might add vam 24 has ear, bow and lines in bolls

[lhnumis1]

The designation of ‘near’ date may be questionable. The image below appears to indicate that the subject coin is likely a ‘normal left‘ designation.

Increasing the scope of the search to the ‘normal’ VAMs may prove useful.

Normal Dates w/Doubled Ear
1889-P VAM-15 Doubled 889, Ear, Arrow fletching
1889-P VAM-20 Doubled Ear and Forehead, Normal Date Hot 50 Morgan VAM
1889-P VAM-24 8 in Denticles, Doubled Ear, Polishing Lines in Cotton Bolls, Normal Date
1889-P VAM-30 Doubled Ear, Far Left of Normal Date Placement
1889-P VAM-36 Doubled Ear Right Inside, Normal Date
1889-P VAM-37 Doubled Ear, Normal Date
1889-P VAM-46 Doubled 1 Top and Ear, Normal Date
1889-P VAM-47 Doubled Ear, Normal Date
1889-P VAM-52 Doubled Ear, Die Gouges Neck Front & Star, Normal Date

Date position of subject coin.

date.jpg (136.76 KiB) Viewed 1102 times

[demetri]

I just cant tell, hmmmmm, I did see the slant.

[demetri]

That would explain missing pups, do you think the doubling on cap and bolls could be machine??

[andywoj00]

Normal Left date.....I'm going with a V24. Here's a photo spread of the one I have. Those two thick lines below the left cotton boll, the lines in the wreath bow. Check for the 8 in the denticles. Doubling looks like strike/machine doubling.
Hope this helps....Andy
http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/PhPa1889V24AW122022

[demetri]

No 8 in denticles I did check the normal dates, and then far dates, only thing that came close was the V24 formally v35 but no mention anywhere of cap and bolls, so now I suspect machine doubling??? But still v24 date is normal position so Im still stumped on date placement

[demetri]

The bow is exact too on v24

[andywoj00]

No 8 in denticles I did check the normal dates, and then far dates, only thing that came close was the V24 formally v35 but no mention anywhere of cap and bolls, so now I suspect machine doubling??? But still v24 date is normal position so Im still stumped on date placement

Yep, machine doubling. Your coin is in the Normal position as well, just a bit further left. Depending on how much wear is at the denticles and how you light it, that 8 can be a bear to pickup.

[demetri]

Those are some amazing pictures you have, wow nice. I agree I can NOT see the 8 in denticles and the coin is maybe a 58 or 60 maybe that is why. I just can not get the date placement straight. But after seeing you images, it might be, I was already on the 24 but the date and doubling drew me away. Super thank you

[andywoj00]

Those are some amazing pictures you have, wow nice. I agree I can NOT see the 8 in denticles and the coin is maybe a 58 or 60 maybe that is why. I just can not get the date placement straight. But after seeing you images, it might be, I was already on the 24 but the date and doubling drew me away. Super thank you

Thanks on the pics.
Check this out on date placement....
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ositioning

Your coin may be a very late die state and the 8 curve is just worn away. With the other markers, I'd call it a V24. The hive opinion may vary.

[demetri]

Thanks for the great detective work, I have a long road ahead lol

[PacificWR]

Double check the polishing lines in the upper tail feathers and wing neck-gap against Andy's photos. If they match, then you have a VAM-24.

[demetri]

Andy is on spot, I was there with the bow but the doubling cap drew me away. Machine doubling is tricky, I thought It was a shadowing and loss or flattening of device. I have some on other coins. Just when I think i have something down I dont...J\Ha ah

[demetri]

What about this doubling on a 1881 S before i look silly asking in forum if you dont mind, Looks double or maybe triple

20230603_230415.jpg (153.89 KiB) Viewed 1041 times

20230603_230719.jpg (110.71 KiB) Viewed 1041 times

20230603_230638.jpg (143.21 KiB) Viewed 1041 times

Im still learning about machine doubling

[andywoj00]

http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2647
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ubled_Dies
https://www.error-ref.com/?s=hub+doubling
https://www.error-ref.com/machine-doubling/

[demetri]

Been there done that and still cant get it straight lol i was leaning that way so thanks for the confirmation