1880 S VAM?

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lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 4:51 pm

The obverse appears to be III2 17 of VAM 25(see confirming obverse images). The reverse appears not to match the C3a of VAM 25...in particular note the images of the mintmark of the ANACS slab subject coin and those of the VAM 25 in the follow-up posts...possible VAM 25A?


DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV.jpg
Obverse
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV.jpg (55.66 KiB) Viewed 693 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV2.jpg
Date placement & doubling of the '1' and first '8'.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV2.jpg (40.03 KiB) Viewed 693 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV3.jpg
Doubling of 2nd '8' and '0'.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV3.jpg (47.43 KiB) Viewed 693 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV4.jpg
Doubling at top of Phrygian cap (not indicated or imaged in the VAM 25 web-page).
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV4.jpg (54.87 KiB) Viewed 693 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV5.jpg
Raised lines in the void and below the fold of the Phrygian cap(not indicated or imaged in the VAM 25 web-page)..
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV5.jpg (22.81 KiB) Viewed 693 times
Last edited by lhnumis1 on Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 5:56 pm

Additional obverse and reverse images...





DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV6.jpg
Lines at the inside bottom of the ear(not indicated or imaged in the VAM 25 web-page).
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV6.jpg (21.22 KiB) Viewed 686 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV7.jpg
Characteristic lines below 1st cotton boll.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV7.jpg (36.28 KiB) Viewed 686 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV.jpg
Reverse
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV.jpg (53.56 KiB) Viewed 686 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV2.jpg
Subject coin mintmark placement with indication of the position of a small spike emerging from the left side of the upper serif. Note the mintmark is of an open type with the serifs not touching the slanting stroke of the 'S', although the upper serif connects to the slanting stroke of the 'S' with the thinnest tiny spike making the connection, not the serif itself. Note also, the mintmark is set left of the 'Centering' line and below the 'high' line. Also note that the 'Low' line indicates the 'O' is considerably above the 'D in 'DOLLAR'.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV2.jpg (48.69 KiB) Viewed 686 times
1880_S_VAM25MMMHIDPIHOI563_(2).jpg
VAM 25 mintmark placement. Note the mintmark appears to be of a 'closed' type with the serifs in contact with the slanting stroke of the 'S'. The mintmark appears to be set centered and barely clearing the 'high' line. In addition, the 'low' line indicates the 'O' and 'D' to be at the same level.
1880_S_VAM25MMMHIDPIHOI563_(2).jpg (94.75 KiB) Viewed 686 times

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:29 pm

Additional reverse images...






DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV3.jpg
Raised lines to right of ribbon bow are noted.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV3.jpg (113.61 KiB) Viewed 684 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV4.jpg
A Large die chip in the 'E' of 'AMERICA' is noted.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV4.jpg (29.78 KiB) Viewed 684 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV5.jpg
Wing-neck gap lines
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV5.jpg (11.63 KiB) Viewed 587 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV6.jpg
Die spike emerges left from the upper right serif.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV6.jpg (3.89 KiB) Viewed 587 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV7.jpg
A die scratch in the upper tail feathers touching the left leg feathers is noted. Lines noted in the voids next to eagle's legs & leg feathers.
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATELOT656REV7.jpg (111.96 KiB) Viewed 587 times
Last edited by lhnumis1 on Mon Jun 12, 2023 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by Vam-mysterio » Wed Jun 07, 2023 9:56 pm

Can you post pictures of:
LiBE
Hair claw
Leaves at one
Challenge yourself,start doing your own date study!

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:03 pm

Thank you Vam-mysterio for responding. Below find the images requested. Trust they may prove adequate...



DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV8.jpg
LIBE
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV8.jpg (53.63 KiB) Viewed 668 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV9.jpg
Hair claw
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEOBV9.jpg (35.89 KiB) Viewed 668 times
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV8.jpg
Leaves above ONE
DOLLAR1880SDBLDDATEREV8.jpg (68.14 KiB) Viewed 668 times

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by Vam-mysterio » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:52 am

How does it compare to
Vam61
Vam 78
Vam 113
Challenge yourself,start doing your own date study!

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:56 pm

The VAM 61 exhibits a doubled profile, lacking in the subject coin. In addition, the VAM 61 date image and description does not match the subject coin.

The VAM 78 does exhibit a doubled Phrygian cap top, but as in the VAM 61, the date does not match.

The VAM 113 exhibits tripling of the Phrygian cap at the top. The subject coin is doubled at the top. In addition, the date does not match.

Keep in mind that the obverse of the subject coin is III2 17 of VAM25. The obverse is not in question (of course, I may have the VAM 25 obverse attribution wrong, in which case everything is up for grabs).

The trouble lies with the reverse. It does not appear to match the reverse of the VAM 25 images and description on the VAM 25 web-page.

Thanks Vam-mysterio for your thoughts in this matter. They are much appreciated and useful to see your take on this attribution.

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by Vam-mysterio » Thu Jun 08, 2023 7:10 pm

1880 s is a date
That needs lots of research/cleaning,
Someone needs to study this one,
When I’m done with the 1879 s research,
I might just do this date , as we know,the 1879s reverse dies were still in use in 1880,
I suspect at least a couple more reverse dies
Of 1879 s were paired with the 1880 s dies
Just like 1880 s vam 124
Challenge yourself,start doing your own date study!

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:31 am

I think you have the right approach Vam-mysterio! I will now examine the reverses of the 1879 S and try to determine if one of them exhibits a reverse that matches the reverse of the subject coin. I'll need some luck to pull this one off...

lhnumis1
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by lhnumis1 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 5:37 am

I examined all the 1879 S reverses with mintmarks imaged on the VAM web-page, but was unable to come up with a match for the subject 1880 S. There were 10 VAMs with reverse mintmark images absent: v 17, 30, 49, 83, 84, 102, 119, 133, 136 ,147. The reverse text descriptions or die markers eliminated all of them from being a match to the subject coin.

Of course a SNAFU is possible and I may have missed something. Others may find my errors; but for the moment, it seems likely that the subject coin may be a VAM 25 with a new 1880 S reverse.

I was hoping that Vam-mysterio had another 1880 S with an 1879 S reverse to add to his collection, but it appears not to be the case in this instance.

Many thanks again to Vam-mysterio for his response and insights. They are much appreciated.

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 890
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1880 S VAM?

Post by Vam-mysterio » Mon Jun 12, 2023 10:47 pm

Send to anacs or Vss ,
John might be able to properly attribute it for you
Challenge yourself,start doing your own date study!

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