1923-S Letter Trans

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colwillys
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1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:29 pm

I picked this 1923-S super polishing Die file lines , worn out die . All clash marks on REV have die file line to remove
clashing , Collar clash at 8:00 to 11:00 and their maybe REV E . Lots of photos . RAW UNC MS 63 . :popcorn: The
break at UNITED URIBU to eagles head . Different then 1AG lower on letters . Any help of the experts or P
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ro's .

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:30 pm

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:57 pm

I sEe what you are referring to in 2 of your photos. It's in the right spot too!

Send it for slabbing and let JR have a look at it for attribution. Seems like a no brainer, but I will hold my YS until it comes back. ;)

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:17 pm

Thank-You Doug .. Dr. Close does all PEACE DOLLAR Attributions .. I have 1 Peace dollar from JR saying send to
Dr. Close ..
This is one sweet PEACE DOLLAR . If it has REV E LETTER TRANSFER then i would say VAM OF THE YEAR 2023 .
I am happy you see what i see .

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:43 pm

Yeah I don't dip my toes in dark water much, unless it's clashed and well, you know...LOL

Rotation looks spot on for the clashing. Any indication of what that rev. may be? Im thinking the crack is a dead give-away for a listed variety.

Dr. Close it is!

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:08 pm

The only listing i have come up with is 1923-S VAM 1AG . The crack or break runs before UNITED thru UNITED to
URIBU to eagles head and thru into UN ..
When i first saw the coin i thought AU 53 from OBV surface misalign dies maybe . A lot of soft strikes for the 1923-S .
All clash's have die file lines and this coin has to be seen in hand to see the beauty .
Doug do i need to call .

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:17 pm

If you mean call it in your submission? I don't think so.

I would tell Leroy what I thought I knew and he always had a lesson for me, wether I liked it or not.
Tell him what you think and he will put it where it belongs...

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:16 am

Dr. Close is the VAM Master for the Peace Dollars . LeRoy Van Allen has stepped out of Attributions .
I was asking if i should call you on the phone the land line . i have your number from years back .

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:13 pm

Two more photos for this 1923-S . Rev lower ray have knife edge not wide edge also the rays bend to the left
at the bottom .. You can see die file lines try to remove clash near olive branch . :roll:
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keilg1
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by keilg1 » Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:26 pm

For those of us who are completely clueless as to what we're looking for, can you circle what you think is letter transfer? I feel like I've never looked at a Peace dollar before because I can't imagine what you all are seeing let alone see it!

:shock:

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:42 pm

You can call me if you like sure.

I found this from a while back, some of you may remember this thread....LOL
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davidkclose
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by davidkclose » Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:46 pm

The only clashed E transfers I have seen on Peace dollars are on the reverse behind eagle's head (1924 VAMs 1D, 1BB, and 8B), and on the obverse in the field left of Liberty's forehead (1926S VAM 1AF1). I would add 1923S VAM 3B, but Leroy didn't agree.
There is enough die polishing in the area behind eagle's head that an E transfer MAY have been there initially, but appears to have been polished off, as occurred with 1924 VAM 8B being polished off to VAM 8C. At least to date, I have not seen a 1923S with a clear E transfer. If you can get a clear photo of a clashed E, please post it here, it would be an exciting find!
I will look at my 1923S reference set to look for a match to your coin.

colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:34 pm

These 5 photos show were the REV E is located .
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colwillys
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by colwillys » Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:49 pm

Find RIB below and between the two Ray behind eagles head .

keilg1
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by keilg1 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:51 am

colwillys wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:49 pm
Find RIB below and between the two Ray behind eagles head .
Thanks. Weozers these are subtle. Yes, like those E clashes of Morgans can be very difficult to see. Thanks for the educatin'. I'll stick with the non-dark side but appreciate the brief jaunt to the other!

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:11 pm

For those playing along. This is my Ice (white) dragon...

GL Col.!

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Albannach
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Re: 1923-S Letter Trans

Post by Albannach » Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:53 pm

Really great talking to you Tom! Thanks for calling.

After hearing your description per our discussion, I would hazard to say you have a post near event strike. Event coins help to tell the whole story. They show what the die was and the is, in the same time and space. Very important in die study and extremely rare. To find one is a gift.

I've been looking at these pics again and I would speculate this:
Dies clashed same time as collar. Stop the press check it out.
There is minimal polishing - up down, side side, likely done in the press. They knew they had issues and tried quick file fix.
Blew out a coin or 2 (your coin) a said "crap, it's toast".
The collar clash likely held up the planchet which could have caused the uneven/"pushed flow. Those wrays don't look right. They look all pushed over and up.
I doubt they got the crack/break out in the press, so it/they were taken out and sent to the shop for major scrubbing/repair.

Discovery or not, anyone doing study would love to hold this coin...

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