Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

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lhnumis1
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by lhnumis1 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 7:12 am

This 1879 O has eluded my best efforts to find a VAM match for it. There are VAMs that are close but none appear to match in detail. VAM 42 seems the best fit but I have not been able to match my coin to the VAM 42 or other doubled -8-9. Below, find descriptions and digital images of the coin in hand. Can the group help to put me on the right path? All comments & suggestions welcome.

OBVERSE DIAGNOSTICS:

III 2, OPEN '9'.1 SET AT A NORMAL 2.5.

THE '8' IS SLIGHTLY DOUBLED AT THE INSIDE RIGHT & OUTSIDE LOWER LEFT OF THE UPPER LOOP. DOUBLING INSIDE IS INDICATED BY A TINY GOUGE @ THE INSIDE UPPER RIGHT OF THE UPPER LOOP. THE OUTSIDE DOUBLING BY A THIN LINE @ THE OUTSIDE LOWER LEFT OF THE UPPER LOOP.

THE '9' APPEARS STRONGLY DOUBLED AT OUTSIDE LEFT OF THE UPPER LOOP AND OUTSIDE LEFT OF THE BALL. IT IS SLIGHTLY DOUBLED @ THE BOTTOM RIGHT OF THE UPPER LOOP, WITH THE SLIGHTEST DOUBLING @ THE INSIDE LEFT OF THE UPPER LOOP.

THE LOWER HAIR IS OVER POLISHED, PRODUCING GAPS & MANY WEAK AND STRONG POLISHING LINES.

A STRONG DIAGONAL POLISHING LINE IS NOTED FROM THE BASE TO THE LOWER RIGHT LOOP OF THE 'B' IN 'LIBERTY'. LIGHTER POLISHING LINES FILL THE BALANCE OF 'LIBERTY'.

REVERSE DIAGNOSTICS:

C3

THE MINTMARK APPEARS TO BE A MEDIUM OVAL 'O'. IT IS TILTED SLIGHTLY CCW @ ~3.49°, IS CENTERED & SET LOW.

THE RIBBON END POINTS TOUCH THE BOW KNOT.

THE TOP OF THE BOW OPENING IS SLIGHTLY DOUBLED. THE BOW VOID IS SLIGHTLY DOUBLED ON THE LEFT AND DOUBLED AT THE TOP. THE VOID EXHIBITS MANY RAISED HORIZONTAL POLISHING LINES.

DIAGONAL POLISHING LINES ARE TOPPED BY 4 STRONG HORIZONTAL POLISHING LINES IN THE GAP BETWEEN THE BOW AND THE ADJACENT LEAF TO THE RIGHT.

'TRU' OF 'TRUST' IS SLIGHTLY DOUBLED.

THE MIDDLE AND BOTTOM ARROW POINTS ARE DOUBLED.

DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV.jpg
1879 O OBVERSE
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV.jpg (63.56 KiB) Viewed 805 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV2.jpg
NINE IN DATE DOUBLED
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV2.jpg (38.53 KiB) Viewed 805 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV3.jpg
DIAGONAL POLISHING LINE @ BASE OF 'B' IN 'LIBERTY'
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV3.jpg (16.05 KiB) Viewed 805 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV.jpg
1879 O REVERSE
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV.jpg (306.22 KiB) Viewed 805 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV2.jpg
O MINT MARK SET LOW,CENTERED, TILTED CCW 3.5 DEGREES:RIBBON LOOP DOUBLED @ INSIDE TOP LEFT, & LEFT. RIBBON VOID DBLD. @ INSIDE TOP.
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV2.jpg (61.88 KiB) Viewed 805 times
Last edited by lhnumis1 on Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lhnumis1
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by lhnumis1 » Fri Feb 10, 2023 11:12 pm

Find additional images below.
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV4.jpg
Slight doubling, inside right upper loop
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV4.jpg (31.35 KiB) Viewed 782 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV5.jpg
slight doubling, outside lower left, upper loop
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV5.jpg (30.47 KiB) Viewed 782 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV6.jpg
over polished lower hair, below & right of designer initial
DOLLAR1879OLOT381OBV6.jpg (56.24 KiB) Viewed 782 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV3.jpg
arrow head doubling
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV3.jpg (37.67 KiB) Viewed 782 times
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV4.jpg
heavy die polishing lines in ribbon void & right of ribbon
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV4.jpg (47.29 KiB) Viewed 782 times

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:46 am

what are these ? something, nothing ???? . several pages missing LFCP on the VW pages for this year so I can see why you are having trouble . Don,t mind me i am very tired this Friday and feel kind of bad for calling my hero's fat by accident . :lol:
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV3 edit.jpg
DOLLAR1879OLOT381REV3 edit.jpg (69.85 KiB) Viewed 761 times
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

lhnumis1
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by lhnumis1 » Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:49 am

Hi Uncle Bingo,
Thank you for responding...

With regard to the items in the yellow circles...the large circle appears to be generic to most or all Morgans...it is the left side of the the back, of the bottom arrow head...my experience indicates that this part of the device is subject to considerable die erosion...with the result that it is, in many cases, found deformed. The small circle device seems to be a tiny bit of temporary debris...it no longer exists on the coin in hand.

Thanks once again,

SRS

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:08 am

I shall just wish you good luck with this one then , cause I have no desire to get anything else wrong by just guessing . i will, tomorrow take my own 79_o out and give it a look , due to your inspiration . I need so many numbers still , no matter the score ... thanks
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Feb 12, 2023 2:33 am

hi @@lhnumis1 All I learned today while taking a look was that I shall put my own 79-O back in the book and go hunt another one . :lol:
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:32 am

What did the former VAM 22 become ? kinda wished I could see the picture through the glare on that page
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

lhnumis1
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by lhnumis1 » Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:37 pm

Thanks for your response Uncle Bingo...The first VAM22 image, to my eye, appears to have heavy die polishing in common with my coin. It can be seen in the lack of hair below the designer initial & in the first 'Vee'. The second image does not appear to match in detail my -8-9; neither does the description given. This is about all that can be said given only the two images shown. And yet, initially, it was assigned a VAM22 designation...now called into question with a follow-up "Dubious Listing" designation.

Might other Discussion Group members be able to sort this out?

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:13 pm

I only asked the question because I honestly don't know the answer. I looked in the 4th edition big book for the original picture of the date , I'm not sure about the description not matching you have described , the listing may have become another number , or perhaps too generic . I just don't know . ?????
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" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:02 pm

I'll bet there is a supplement or comment from the experts that would clear this right up . lots of reference material and notes and knowledge out there . best in the world ...
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:37 pm

I wished I could be of more help. Maybe start over MM placement,Date placement.then go through every page and try to find the die markers . If that doesn't work send it to one of the Johns
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

lhnumis1
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:40 pm

Re: Morgan Silver dollar 1879 O

Post by lhnumis1 » Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:38 pm

I compared, using the VAM website descriptions & images, all the VAMS of 1879 0 listed, with my coin without success. Of the 750+ silver dollars in my collection, 90%+ have been attributed with VAM numbers. The balance, starting with a group beginning with the 79 O, are now being gone over once again, in an effort to get VAMs for all of them.
Thanks, UNCLE BINGO for your continued effort to help.
SRS

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