Really Strange Luster

[Bulletproof7]

THis is an 1881-S PCGS MS65. There are no VAMs for luster. I am a newb - I think I MIGHT have seen some wavy luster before? Not this pronounced. What would cause it? If it's not a VAM, maybe twisting of the dies when the coin is getting ejected?

Morgan Tiger.jpg (162.13 KiB) Viewed 374 times

Morgan Tiger 1.jpg (157.76 KiB) Viewed 374 times

Morgan Tiger 2.jpg (161.06 KiB) Viewed 374 times

Morgan Tiger 3.jpg (156.07 KiB) Viewed 374 times

[vampicker]

Did not leave the mint like that. Damaged deliberately

[messydesk]

If it's in a PCGS 65 holder, then I'll say it looks like it was caused by the individual LEDs on your light source.

[Eschaton]

If it's in a PCGS 65 holder, then I'll say it looks like it was caused by the individual LEDs on your light source.

I was about to say the same thing. It’s the lighting. I’m guessing you have an LED ring light.

But not all year/mm’s will do this, I’ve seen this almost exclusively on 80S-82S coins. It’s a weird phenomenon where there is almost no frost whatsoever, even on the cheek and devices. But the coins haven’t been cleaned. I’m sure JB, JR and others who have graded, have seen many such coins in their grading & attribution experiences.

I’m not an expert on the intricacies of diet maintenance and preparation, but I’m guessing it was something to do with the way that the dies were prepared or maintained at San Francisco between the years of 1880 and 1882, since it seems to be relegated to almost exclusively to those issues.

It almost looks like the coins were hit with a microfiber cloth, but they weren’t.

[vampicker]

So if it's lighting, that's really weird.

[UNCLE BINGO]

So not to ask the obvious question , What does the cartwheel look like when it's not under the ring light ?

[MintyFresh]

Interesting. Are you using an LED ling light? Try taking a photo under a table light.

Do you see the same, or a similar reflection (luster) from the coin when it is rotated and tilted (angled) from the eye (or camera lens)? For photographing it. try tilting the stand or table with the camera stationary on a fixed focal plane. or if using a cell camera, try holding the camera steady with one hand while rotating it with the other. I would also adjust the brightness to reduce light 'noise'. A soft light filter with a reflected light source from 130 degrees to 15 degrees would do most nicely. A secondary light also can be reflected off a wall behind the shot. Experiment until you find what you are looking for. It is both science, and art.

It would be interesting if you can get repeatable, and predictable results.

It does remind me of a cartwheel effect that I have seen in a coin before.

[keilg1]

In the field of woodworking you can get wickedly cool swirl patterns when applying oil or epoxy to pieces and spinning them with a blow dryer directly above. These remind me of those...

Not saying this is the case on this coin, but if the patterns don't disappear when seen under different lighting, and you can get up-close pictures of the surface of the coin - especially where the curved light/dark sections are most pronounced - you might be able to see if this is surface related.

Seeing that the color changes are most pronounced around the stars and letters, and present in the fields only (absent on the relief) makes me think this is a remnant of some liquid chemical.

Kinda pretty and not pretty simultaneously to me. Strange is a good word, too!

[MintyFresh]

Nice feedback. Good thought to consider.

[Bulletproof7]

Thanks for the responses; I don't have the coin in hand yet to have a better look.

It does look like a MASSIVE amount of machine doubling under the chin, and then on the corresponding part of the reverse, the top of the bird.

Maybe there was an impurity in the blank that caused the die to shift violently? Or the liquid thing too. I should get the coin in 2 weeks. To be honest, I think the "familiar" part of the waves was from looking at Walking Liberty's gown on other coins.

My mind is weird like that. Maybe I've seen that pattern on a Morgan though, even if subconsciously because the lighting wasn't so telling. I guess on average I look at 150- 200 Morgans a day online, which is about 100,000 over 3 years. That's a staggering number when you think about it.

I will update when I get the coin.

[Malachi35]

Cool looking coin

[LateDateMorganGuy]

In the past, we pushed the idea of folks NOT posting pics of coins they do not have in hand. Many time once you get it, things look different. I would not be surprised if what you show in someone else's photo isn't holder reflection poop.

[RogerB]

Bulletproof7.
Interesting photos. If you post a range of full-coin photos taken from different angles and describe the lighting in use, we might be able to figure this out.

Thanks! RWB