1900 p.... VAM-Misstrike- Error- What is it?

[PacificWR]

To All:

I believe the plan forward will be to get it professionally graded .... So which agency is the "choice" for VAM's and curiosities?

NGC-PCGS-ANACS????

PCGS.

[PacificWR]

Thanks for the feedback Gary, but toning is not the answer. Black toning is the end game, plus toning tends to be more continuous and not as broken-up as shown in the coins above. On my coin, I will see what the high resolution photos of the entire obverse tell me. There is one indisputable fact here and that is in the next die state...right where the black marks are.. the die roughness first reappears. I have both coins to prove it.

[Geseas]

An interesting mystery!


here is my two cents' worth on this topic. I usually look to our natural world to solve problems.

@SilverToken's 1900-P photo reminds me of a frozen lake in the spring. The ice will recede around any protruding object also along the shoreline (the rim of the coin) as things warm up. If a 'star' were the protruding object in this frozen lake a diluted hexagon would eventually take shape in that receding ice edge. It kind of looks like what we have here. I will attempt a illustration using SilverTokens photo:

canvas (5).jpg (85.82 KiB) Viewed 2544 times

This type of perception may suggest a metallurgical solution to this question. Weird things can happen to metals under extreme pressures..Just a rambling thought.

[SilverToken]

Well, it's been 1 year to the day since my first original post.

We have had a dramatic increase in values, partially due to the release of the 2021 Morgans and Peace Dollars. We have seen the Covid decrease and coin shows open back up, but please stay safe. We have seen LVA hand the reins to a very qualified team.

Personally in coin collecting, I have learned that I need to learn a lot more. I have found in the Forum, quite a few of old school and honorable souls, who have great, honest views and advise. I have seen the good and bad in coin grading submissions, which still makes me queasy. I have been given some great advise on viewing coin collecting and have changed my methodology. It's still Fun!

Anyway, about my coin that I posted on 1 year ago. In re-reading my posts and replies, it showed to me I asked many of the wrong questions. It showed to me that many members have fun and want to help and learn.

So now I can take MUCH better pics, though lighting is still my nemesis. And I present some zoomed in details of the areas around the stars. You can clearly see not only that it is not glue or environmental damage, but in some areas there are 2 levels of field build. It is as if the fields were clashed, the mint ground the die, proofed it, and decided to grind some more.

Opinions always welcome either way, thats why there are 3 sides to a coin, as I was told.

I thank all that have been kind to me over the year, and wonder if you feel your nuts are still safe squirrel....

[fogie]

I would opt for ANACS. Most likely to get it right. PCGS (in my opinion) would take a glance at it and dismiss it outright. I would really like to hear ANACS verdict.....

[vampicker]

I'm not buying this as a die stage based on the pictures. If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say there was residue built up around the stars and then the coin saw further circulation. Later the crud was removed. If it crossed my desk, I'd most likely tank it for environmental damage. I'd really have to see a second example with the exact same pattern.

[keilg1]

I'm not buying this as a die stage based on the pictures. If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say there was residue built up around the stars and then the coin saw further circulation. Later the crud was removed. If it crossed my desk, I'd most likely tank it for environmental damage. I'd really have to see a second example with the exact same pattern.

I agree. Once you've seen upclose pictures of die fatigue it is easier to differentiate. Sorry again @SilverToken I still think this is left over residue.

Here's a different coin but one of the more well-known with die fatigue: the 1881-O VAM-16. I have two: a PCGS62 DMPL and this PCGS 63PL that shows more clearly the metal ridges that might help show what I mean.

1881OV16-63PLrevoliveandwreath.jpg (124.33 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

1881OV16-63PLrevwreathberry.jpg (107.16 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

1881OV16-63PLrevIGW.jpg (114.17 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

1881OV16-63PLrevGo-details.jpg (103.7 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

The full coin is PL so the areas around the wreath leaves and the letters are ultra-proof-like. Seems to be a different type of transition in metal graininess on yours suggesting the metal itself is not necessarily that different, the coloration on the metal is?

I have an 1880-P VAM-1G, an 1880-VAM45A, an 1880-O VAM-81 (discovery coin), an 1883-O VAM-1C1, an 1888-P VAM-7D, and a 1990-O VAM-13A, amongst others, that all show similar traits to the pictures above. Again, once you see them upclose and personal, you'll see the difference.

Hope these help you and others. Once you get them in hand, the disease sets in and you can't get enough?

Can't wait to see what the experts say once they get your coin in hand so we can all learn more. I don't claim to know, I claim to be a curious learner...

Gary

[iwillbenice]

TOOOOO long in a dip cleaner.













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[SilverToken]

Update-

I now believe this to be a Near Date Vam 5. Near Date, 3 ear lines, Neck gap, tail lines all check out.

In the original pics on Vamworld, there is a reference to acid dip. I now believe that the possibility that acid was used at the mint, which pooled in the fields, cutting deeper into the die, texturing and raising the field of the coin.

Thoughts?

[SilverToken]

Update-

I now believe this to be a Near Date Vam 5. Near Date, 3 ear lines, Neck gap, tail lines all check out.

In the original pics on Vamworld, there is a reference to acid dip. I now believe that the possibility that acid was used at the mint, which pooled in the fields, cutting deeper into the die, texturing and raising the field of the coin.

Thoughts?

[keilg1]

Still sticking with my original thought, backed up by @vampicker's comments (as well as others): what you're seeing is on the surface of the coin or something that ended up altering the surface of the coin, after it was minted and released into the wild. Don't believe this has happened, but I'd (still) suggest you send it in (ANACS first choice, PCGS or NGS as a distant second but definitely not SEGS, PCI, etc.) to get an official answer. Please do so, so we can all learn and stop conjecturing? (Although we love to do that... especially on a lazy spring day... )

As JR said, unless you can find identical coins like this (same date and MM and other VAM features/PUPs), the chances of it happening at the mint were acid was used to supposedly produce the effect -- especially when multiple other dates and mints show similar patterning (and color changes) -- is slim.

Just my 2-cents worth of thought...

[PacificWR]

Update-

I now believe this to be a Near Date Vam 5. Near Date, 3 ear lines, Neck gap, tail lines all check out.

In the original pics on Vamworld, there is a reference to acid dip. I now believe that the possibility that acid was used at the mint, which pooled in the fields, cutting deeper into the die, texturing and raising the field of the coin.

Thoughts?

Mark,

Can you email me high resolution close-up photos and LFCP's

[Albannach]

Falling stars variety

The obverse die collapsed left of center ( tic )

[fogie]

Die is wearing out ...