Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

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Newbee1
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Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Newbee1 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:37 am

I'm new to all this and I finally identified my first Morgan variety as the Joh-22 and I was just wondering if there is any other vams that could be tied to it? Any answers appreciated
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bob259
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by bob259 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:01 pm

Another question might be, since all Morgans are vams, just what vam is the JOH-22?

Vam-mysterio
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Vam-mysterio » Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:51 pm

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... _Varieties
If you go to morgan vams by date 1921D
On top,hit fun with 1921
You will find that most Joh numbers have been given a vam number but not all

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bob259
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by bob259 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:54 pm

You will find that most Joh numbers have been given a vam number but not all
So, again, if all Morgans are VAMs, why not all?

Geseas
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Geseas » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:42 pm

bob259 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:54 pm
You will find that most Joh numbers have been given a Vam number but not all
So, again, if all Morgans are VAMs, why not all?
I have been contemplating the same thing; since we discussed this anomaly a [viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5545&p=47475&hilit=JOH#p47475]
I think it is left open for folks like me to learn more and @Newbee1 e1 to put a Vam number on.
It would be quite a feather in a cap to accomplish this. in my opinion.
I am secretly working on JOH 23. :D

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vampicker
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by vampicker » Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:16 pm

A pattern of minor cracks as illustrated by JOH-22 with no field displacement, noticeable die chips or scribble scratches would be a VAM 1. Most of the JOH listings have since had other stages noted that resulted in a VAM being assigned to it. As far as I know, this hasn't been found with anything 'listable' by the VAM catalog standards.
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

Newbee1
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Newbee1 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:24 pm

@Geseas how would one go about getting a vam number listed for it that would be really cool. I'm curious on how people get errors attributed by them?

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Bigbub
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Bigbub » Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:35 am

Being that I realize that I'm obsessive, I've avoided 1921 D VAMs to retain a semblance of sanity.

However, this does have certain drawbacks. I had no idea what a JOH number was which limited my understanding of this thread. So I looked it up in the VAMWorld definition page to find out. Oops, not there.

So then, I had to go and click on the 21D VAM page, which lead me to the JOH page. My my, there are a lot of whatever they are listed there. But still no explanation of what it meant.

Hmmm. Well, they definitely aren't Breen numbers so somebody else must have written a book. So I went to VAMWorld Big list of lists page and found a link in the VAM references section called VAM Books. So I went there and lo and behold, a book called "Fun with 21" by Rob Joyce was listed. I know who he is. Maybe he wrote about what a JOH number is.

Darn, the book is out of print. Oh wait, there is an electronic link listed. I wonder if it still works? So I clicked on it and BINGO, right there on page 108 is the definition, JOyce and Hart. Ah, it's a conjunction of their names and references their VNA cataloging of 1921 D coins. Page 108. Did I mention I am obsessive?

So with that mystery solved, I updated the VAMWorld definitions page and added the JOH definition, for those less obsessive than me.

keilg1
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by keilg1 » Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:26 am

vampicker wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:16 pm
A pattern of minor cracks as illustrated by JOH-22 with no field displacement, noticeable die chips or scribble scratches would be a VAM 1. Most of the JOH listings have since had other stages noted that resulted in a VAM being assigned to it. As far as I know, this hasn't been found with anything 'listable' by the VAM catalog standards.
I agree with this. It took me a while to realize what a listable VAM meant. I still feel the Attribution 101 page http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... bution_101 should be immediately under the VAMWorld Home page link at the TOP of the page so everyone entering in is more strongly encouraged to learn that cracking patterns do not equate to new VAM designations (1 vs 2 vs 3, etc.), but they can lead to minor variety designations (1Axx vs 1Ayy, etc.) - as the 1921 series has exploded into. Cracks and die breaks fascinate some, bore others. To each their own as long as we share a common language of what makes what?

Geseas
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by Geseas » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:19 pm

Newbee1 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:24 pm
@Geseas how would one go about getting a vam number listed for it that would be really cool. I'm curious on how people get errors attributed by them?
Yes, that would be very cool. I believe you are definitely on the right path, as you can see already. The good folks here will help you through the boilerplate and even assist you in setting up your new Vam page!
Present your best photographs and description of your coin from the research you have already done. Use that search engine provided with your membership. The search engine has a great record of people who have attempted the very same thing you are trying to do. You can increase your knowledge base that way.
If you are fortunate enough to come across a Discovery coin and present it well; they are not going to let it pass on by.

The coin you are working with right now may not be the one, but there is a lot more out in the wild. :)

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messydesk
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by messydesk » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:44 pm

keilg1 wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:26 am
I agree with this. It took me a while to realize what a listable VAM meant. I still feel the Attribution 101 page http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... bution_101 should be immediately under the VAMWorld Home page link at the TOP of the page so everyone entering in is more strongly encouraged to learn that cracking patterns do not equate to new VAM designations (1 vs 2 vs 3, etc.), but they can lead to minor variety designations (1Axx vs 1Ayy, etc.) - as the 1921 series has exploded into. Cracks and die breaks fascinate some, bore others. To each their own as long as we share a common language of what makes what?
The Attribution 101 page is one of the first pages linked in the body of the VAMWorld home page, and shouldn't require scrolling down to get to it. It's pretty hard to miss, less hard to ignore, sort of like the "How to Use This Book" sections of books. (Memo to self: If I ever write such a section in a book, thank and congratulate the reader for actually reading that part.)
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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messydesk
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Re: Is there any vams that are with the 1921 d JOH-22 small break above m Morgan?

Post by messydesk » Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:00 pm

Newbee1 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:24 pm
@Geseas how would one go about getting a vam number listed for it that would be really cool. I'm curious on how people get errors attributed by them?
Take a look at the links at the top of the VAMWorld home page, including "Guidelines for New Die Varieties." Be aware that for this specific variety, unless you find an early die stage with listable features, you are unlikely to get a new variety. JohnR (vampicker) and I are the gatekeepers for new Morgan VAMs. It's more important to be able to find your way around the coins for the purpose of attributing them accurately and efficiently. Do that and the new discoveries or other changes to the VAM catalog will come.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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