1889-P date placement help needed

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DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:03 pm

LVA's written descriptions are often problematic for me, because I'm not certain I follow what is being described. In this case, I presume that his statement "left hair curl behind jaw" means this?
1889 jaw.jpg
1889 jaw.jpg (290.78 KiB) Viewed 362 times
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1889 hair curl.jpg
1889 hair curl.jpg (355.66 KiB) Viewed 362 times
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Yeah word-only listings are the devil, lol.

I would check the upper poof (the one that sticks out the farthest to the left, that physically touches the jaw line).
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DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:32 pm

new pixs coming
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1889 left leg 1.jpg
1889 left leg 1.jpg (226.16 KiB) Viewed 358 times
1889 hair curl 2.jpg
1889 hair curl 2.jpg (240.65 KiB) Viewed 358 times
Last edited by DHalladay on Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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RMG1883CC
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by RMG1883CC » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:36 pm

Looking for what JR taught me. Look at my v16 and the leg, had to use lights

http://www.silverdye.us/wiki/Main/Pa1889VNC1RMG022417

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RMG1883CC
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by RMG1883CC » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:39 pm

looks 16

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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:45 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:32 pm
Different hair curl. The right one I hope?

1889 hair curl 2.jpg



Left leg. What are we hoping to see, a blue lint thread? Scribbles? :lol:


1889 left leg 1.jpg
Your guess is as good as mine (probably better) without listing pictures :lol:

Might just be too worn to see? Always the possibility he saw a coin with strike doubling in the hair? Might be why we've never seen photos...
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:53 pm

RMG1883CC wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:39 pm
looks 16
It's entirely possible. I'm notoriously bad judging alignments from differing angles.

The left bottom leg of the "1" and it's position to the denticles is what i was looking at...
..
..
Image
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DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:06 pm

OMG!! :o :o :o
This is the most embarrassing screw-up ever. The leg and hair curl photos above were shot from the WRONG COIN. I am so sorry. :oops: :oops: :oops:

Here are shots from the correct coin:

1889 hair curl 3.jpg
1889 hair curl 3.jpg (244.02 KiB) Viewed 348 times
1889 left leg.jpg
1889 left leg.jpg (311.3 KiB) Viewed 348 times
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RMG1883CC
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by RMG1883CC » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

V16 WITH THAT LEG SHOT

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RMG1883CC
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by RMG1883CC » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:20 pm

Image

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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:27 pm

If we ask for pics of all the doubling, will we get the right coin? :lol:

(In jest)
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DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:28 pm

RMG1883CC wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm
V16 WITH THAT LEG SHOT

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I'm staying away from this date from now on... unless it's a 23A of course.
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:29 pm

RMG1883CC wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:20 pm
Image
32 has the same marks.

Its a shared reverse or a dupe. Go look at the 32 LFCP...
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:30 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:28 pm
RMG1883CC wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm
V16 WITH THAT LEG SHOT

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I'm staying away from this date from now on... unless it's a 23A of course.
V16 is literally V16 because of the doubling. You have lots of actual markers to look for to make it a V16...

Those same leg marks are on V32...
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:33 pm

These are the leg marks from V32...

You can't judge a P mint on the reverse alone in case of shared dies because of the lack of a mint mark.

The obverse is the obverse. Check for the doubling. If it's there you get to kill off V32. Otherwise the cotton lines seal it as a separate VAM.
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:46 pm

Or to work the problem from the other side...

V16 is a hot 50. Someone on here has an AOH V16 to see if it has the lines in the bolls...
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DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:27 pm

Gentlemen:

If my coin has the cotton bolls lines for a VAM 32:
1889 cotton bolls.jpg
1889 cotton bolls.jpg (233.87 KiB) Viewed 335 times

And the left leg opening lines for a VAM 16 (but no ear doubling... and VAM 16 has HUGE ear doubling)
1889 left leg.jpg
1889 left leg.jpg (297.85 KiB) Viewed 335 times

Then could this be an obverse V32 + reverse V16 pairing?
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:34 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:27 pm
Gentlemen:

If my coin has the cotton bolls lines for a VAM 32:

1889 cotton bolls.jpg


And the left leg opening lines for a VAM 16 (but no ear doubling... and VAM 16 has HUGE ear doubling)

1889 left leg.jpg


Then could this be an obverse V32 + reverse V16 pairing?
Barring any doubling, and unless someone comes forward with an AoH V16 that has the same lines...

...yep.

Just a shared reverse...

It's just a 32...
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by DHalladay » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:36 pm

Yokel:

I'll ask Fogie if he has both V16 and V32. Maybe he can put this crazyness to bed for us.

And Lee is right... 1921-Ps make way more sense than 1889-Ps. :lol:
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TheYokel
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Re: 1889-P date placement help needed

Post by TheYokel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:44 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:36 pm
Yokel:

I'll ask Fogie if he has both V16 and V32. Maybe he can put this crazyness to bed for us.

And Lee is right... 1921-Ps make way more sense than 1889-Ps. :lol:
Would just need a V16. You said yours doesn't have the doubling.

The only question left is whether the V16 has the cotton lines. If it does, V32 is just a LDS V16 with the doubling worn/polished away.

If V16 doesn't have the lines, they are separate pairs with a shared reverse. Much more straight-forward than scribbles... :shudders: :lol:
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