1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

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Nu-Miss-Mattic
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1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:09 pm

Good Morning to all,
I was referred to you guys by James Wiley. I have a few questions about my 1878 Morgan this a.m. The 1st is are there any variations of the 1878 with a die clash concerning the head of the eagle on the reverse? Right by the engraver's signature on the Obverse I can clearly see the entire head & eyes of the eagle. Another concern is that I see the VAM for the light doubling in the "LIBERTY" & the date, its just not for the 1878 that I have. Last but not least, there are 3 triangles deep in the face of the Obverse clearly seen with the naked eye. I will attach a few pics in hopes to get a few answers & some help. Have a blessed remainder of your guy's day. Thanks in advance.
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Triangles in face
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Raised area/Eagle die clash
IMG_20230930_092209321.jpg (139.87 KiB) Viewed 681 times
IMG_20230930_092401041.jpg
Doubling in "LIBERTY"
IMG_20230930_092401041.jpg (340.95 KiB) Viewed 681 times
IMG_20230930_092419403.jpg
Doubling in "LIBERTY"
IMG_20230930_092419403.jpg (171.57 KiB) Viewed 681 times
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:33 pm

Welcome to the forum . I will answer the question about the triangles because that type of thing was exactly why I ever became curious about variety's . Unfortunately they are caused by post mint damage . If you can imagine the reeded edge of another coin cutting the deep gouges in her face .. I asked almost the exact same question on the coin community forum a couple years back /
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

Nu-Miss-Mattic
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:38 pm

Bag damage so to to speak. I was just making sure because they were so deep into the coin. I appreciate the response.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:47 pm

Could you please post a picture of the arrow shafts and feathers on the reverse ?
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

Nu-Miss-Mattic
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:54 pm

Pics of reverse arrow
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:59 pm

1878 w/reverse of 1879
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 4:21 pm

Are you already familiar with the attribution guide for the 7tf variety's . I am trying very hard not to complicate this and not give bad information .. http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 878-P_VAMs we may need a couple more pictures. what you are looking for is quite a ways down on that page .
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

MarkyB
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by MarkyB » Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:02 pm

You have a C3 reverse. Check for a broken point on the 4th right obverse star to narrow down the possibilities. GL

Nu-Miss-Mattic
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:26 pm

Will do. On it now
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:40 pm

It's the 3 star from the "M" in "UNUM" but the 4th star from the "8" in 1878...
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:58 pm

@MarkyB I'll vote broken point , you? Orientation took a little turning of the laptop but thats OK . :D
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

MarkyB
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by MarkyB » Sun Oct 01, 2023 6:10 pm

Yes broken so VAM 222-229.1. Nothing popped out during my first pass thru the listings. Many PUPs are polishing lines so can't make them out in the current photo's. I also need to determine what constitutes a "cutdown A". I'll continue trying to ID it while watching my dolphins battle.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 6:33 pm

@Nu-Miss-Mattic So it looks like we are down to 1 in 18 odds ... That is actually huge . Instead of us just asking for pictures of different parts of your coin . You could try to start at VAM 222 on that list I put up and try with the coin in hand. {it is up to you of course }Some good areas to start might be looking at the neck /wing gap , on the eagle . Maybe look for any polish lines inside the wreath bow just to start .. Here is another link for future reference for you . http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... bution_101
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:27 pm

And please feel free to post any pictures that you find interesting and we will try to help :D
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

Nu-Miss-Mattic
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:20 pm

Most definitely will. I appreciate you guys' time & expertise. I did find a few scratch marks around the branch & the bottom of the feathers. I'll post pics after doing a little more research.
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messydesk
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by messydesk » Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:59 pm

Circulated 1878 Rev of 79 can be difficult to attribute. There are three Top 100 VAMs (203, 220, 223) that are easily attributed simply by looking at or near the R in PLURIBUS. I always start here. If I don't get a match, it's probably going to take me a while, especially on a circulated coin.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Tue Oct 03, 2023 2:33 am

messydesk wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:59 pm
Circulated 1878 Rev of 79 can be difficult to attribute. There are three Top 100 VAMs (203, 220, 223) that are easily attributed simply by looking at or near the R in PLURIBUS. I always start here. If I don't get a match, it's probably going to take me a while, especially on a circulated coin.
I hope she, (assuming by the user name alone) comes back. It has not been that long ago I tried to write VAM numbers on coins for the first time . Looking back I think I only got 25% right . This caused me to get mad at the coins , which was really me just getting mad at myself .... Silly I know but true . I tried to use the wiki pages , and coin facts images . It was a disaster :lol: It's way, way, hard the first time , even with the books . As I have heard you say many people have come to both this forum and the old one , only to never be seen again . Thanks for your kind words JB . Saving the hobby one VAM at a time .
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

Nu-Miss-Mattic
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by Nu-Miss-Mattic » Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:35 am

I checked against VAM 203 & most things check out. Here is a pic of the reverse between the "d" of "GOD" & the "w" of "WE". There appears to be an upside down "M" or an "W" from my angle.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Tue Oct 03, 2023 11:20 pm

@Nu-Miss-Mattic Do you have the ability to capture a picture directly from your scope?. You seem to have the upper hand, of possibly seeing something that may be harder for the rest of us to see. What you are describing sounds like a clashed M but , I can tell you those take practice to capture on film , especially on a circulated coin . If you can manage to save a Jpeg file directly from your scope , it will help the rest of us looking at your pictures . Is there also a way to get a little tighter shot of the feathers on the bottom of the eagles right wing, where it meets the body ? Thanks
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1878 Morgan w/reverse of 1879 7TF

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:00 am

I am wondering if you are seeing this type of mark or something else , in relation to size and shape ? you cannot use the exact placement of this clashed designer initial for comparison, but I thought it might help you to visualize what they look like if your coin does have a similar looking mark between the d and w .
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" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

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