Lack of posting topics and overall interest

[morganman]

Some posts stay at top of page for days, signaling low action
and interest. Sure sad the way this has all went downhill from say
2015 forward. 2010 + seems to be the haydays with huge volumne
& action.
So many members left, many from pricing/devaluation reasons. Guess like any other public forum, people come
and go. Lets hope interest increases if silver ever goes up !!
Silver is another super sad story price ways= Terrible 10-12
years in defensive lower pricing in general

My bitch has ended LOL-Frustrated in Oregon

[UNCLE BINGO]

Scott , have you ever considered the impact of your posting on this forum ? I get it ,,,, it's not so much of having anything to do with the VAM market but more in lines of anyone (possibly new folks reading some or your post) ? I swear you are a lot man and I mean no offense at all . All the negativity , all because of money???? ,It brings folks down . Like it or not the very thing you are kinda bitching about effects anyone new interested in this hobby . Maybe I missed something , because I was not a member way back when .. Do you not remember when this was fun ????? 80, 0000 Morgans give or take you have , and I swear, I have done everything in my power to validate your claims given the limited info I could gather . come on man . Do you really want your life's work to be nothing more than a label that says "Oregon collection"????? Believe it or not I am seriously trying to help you , because I do know something about public forums .... All the vam stuff is an open book to me , after all I take great pride in being the smallest fish in the pond /

[RogerB]

Rather than pointing fingers of blame at one another, try working together to simplify the "VAM experience" and improving response to potential new members?

Use your collective knowledge to prepare and market (not 'sell') materials and options that will interest new collectors, and respond to their collecting habits. For example: 1) Develop illustrated lists of varieties that are attainable by inexperienced variety collectors. Not one list -- but several. Spreading it out gives people a chance to complete a list, then move to another. Ten coins might be a good illustrated list length. 2) When writing for new collectors, simplify numbering by omitting all the sub-varieties and early-middle-late-really late-terminal die states and the other imposing and off-putting numbering. Keep it simple. 3) Hold new member contests or "register"-type projects that collectors can boast about and compare. 4) Stop complaining and start acting -- both to change attitudes of experienced VAMpires, and possibly your own. 5) Be patient with new collectors. What is obvious to an experienced VAMpire might be a amazing find to a newcomer. Remember that you were once in his/her shoes and looked up to others for help.

[UNCLE BINGO]

You know what Roger you are right , and I will apologize to Scott if that is how that last post came across.
I caught myself the other day doing nothing more than pouring gasoline on a fire in one of the threads .
Maybe I am just trying to make up for something that happened along time ago on a very similar kind of public forum . I will not bore the readers with the details .
There is vast knowledge and wisdom in the membership here , and I for one am grateful for being aloud to participate .

[RogerB]

My comment was more generic than specific.

As an outsider to VAMs, I see so much knowledge, information, skills and possibility among experienced members. Yet, together almost nothing is done to understand and respond to potential new enthusiasts....or to capture and stimulate those who venture to the site. But --- those things are up to the members.

[morganman]

I confess to being very negative, as i dont see Vams as
exciting anymore, after many yrs following and involved
My age,health decline, vam values have all played a roll.

I need to simply quit it all, but habits are hard to break.
I will try hard to dis appear LOL

[UNCLE BINGO]

That would be a shame IMO . for I believe you to be capable of doing great things .

[keilg1]

My comment was more generic than specific.

As an outsider to VAMs, I see so much knowledge, information, skills and possibility among experienced members. Yet, together almost nothing is done to understand and respond to potential new enthusiasts....or to capture and stimulate those who venture to the site. But --- those things are up to the members.

@RogerB, you've nailed it once again. We (collectively) have continued to make, remake and remake again our own proverbial bed and grumble how we can't sleep well at night.

Thankfully we have a collective power to change everything. And it starts with each post being not just the 'letter(s)' of the posting rules we all see, but the spirit of the hobby - oh, and simple humanistic values.

[RogerB]

Keilg1 - it's also about communicating ideas to increase engagement and improve what is already present. VAMpires can easily use this forum to offer suggestion and then discuss their merits, constraints and implementation. Everyone was once a beginner -- a trite but true statement -- what attracted your attention? How did you learn more? Who helped and how? What got in the way? Then -- how can this be transformed into things that will work with modern collectors and their different (?) ways of communication and understanding.

My first rule of management is "Listen to my employees, and listen to the real users." So,... "VAMpires can listen to their own stories, and listen to the new people."

The information your members have developed is, I feel, an important component of understanding coinage, and of identifying varieties, practices and the crooks who stamp off counterfeits.

But it's up to you "guys" to put aside the stacks of silver and go for something with a greater return on investment.
I've said enough - maybe too much for some.

[messydesk]

One of the issues is that VAMs have become sufficiently popular (all over most auction sites, Heritage has special VAM sales, everyone knows about VAMWorld) that people see them and get started without guidance. Many that come here are at first looking for quick answers and are never seen again. This was an issue on the old VAMWorld site, too. The summer seminar course I teach always has diverse motivations for learning the stuff, and we focus on two series, simply for the purpose of focusing them on a manageable amount of information -- 1878 8TF and Top 100 varieties. The Top 100 list and book may seem dated to some, but to the new collector it is not, and it remains a good way to focus the new VAM collector. Use it to focus people wanting to know a good place to start. If you haven't gone through it yourself, you should.

[morganman]

I remember seeing VW1 for 1st time and shuffling
through my inventory looking for any date of
Clashing episodes. WOW - Talk about exciting,
I became totally hooked & then got excited about
wild die cracks with clashing.

After finding & selling several hundred dandies
for big bucks i used money to buy 1880 s & 1881 s
ms66DMPL in PCGS & NGC for say $650/750.
Turned out a great move and easy sellers, with
some 1881 s 66dmpl's bringing $2700 a few
short yrs later. This was not all about money, but
rather stratgedy and love of mirrored Morgans.
The EGO was also happy for making a good move.

[UNCLE BINGO]

Much better IMO , Thank you for sharing !

[LateDateMorganGuy]

Back in the day (maybe 2007 to 2014 or so), I called VAMming the wild, wild west of coin collecting. This was both for myself and looking at what others were doing on VW1.0. There was a lot going on, and a lot of folks who had opinions about what was going on, some good, some bad. It made for lively interesting discussion, and sometimes, flame wars.

But I agree with trying to keep it simple. For beginners, I would suggest buying 'Wonders of Morgan Dollars" by LVA. Then collect what you find interesting.

Another suggestion, which will never see the light of day is to simplify and streamline the main entry pages geared for beginners. There is too much gobbledygook on them for beginners. Bury the complicated stuff down farther in the pages.

[morganman]

I agree with latedate morgan guy- way to much
confusing info at beginning of vam pages that
confuses newbies & old timers alike. Keeping it
simple, understandable, upfront would keep
folks interest, withot all the complex details of
various dies and etc.

[RogerB]

I feel that LateDateMorganGuy has the right idea but is missing the core concept: the materials to attract, interest, and develop don't exist. Neither do the follow-up approaches and simplified hand-on guidance. One cannot merely point a beginner to an obscure, dated booklet and then expect then to "teach themselves what they don't know."

It's either "proactive or noactive."

[PacificWR]

I feel that LateDateMorganGuy has the right idea but is missing the core concept: the materials to attract, interest, and develop don't exist. Neither do the follow-up approaches and simplified hand-on guidance. One cannot merely point a beginner to an obscure, dated booklet and then expect then to "teach themselves what they don't know."

It's either "proactive or noactive."

You nailed it.

[morganman]

Roger; You have a great simple way with
words that strike exact points, that
i never can think of. Thanks for chiming
in your opinions and your research on
articles periodically. A truly valued member.

I am lacking patience as health issues
seem to limit my interest and pain is
not helping- damm it-lol
may vammers still active/interested
enjoy the heck outta hunting em down
and adding to collections.

Im feeling nautious so must quit for now

[UNCLE BINGO]

Scott , don't let this forum wear you out . Please take care of yourself . and thank you !

[RogerB]

Scott , don't let this forum wear you out . Please take care of yourself . and thank you !

"Please take care of yourself ... and thank you !" Absolutely !

[Eschaton]

Many great points on this thread, love what Roger is saying. But I'm gonna go ahead and address the elephant in the room.

The deeply embedded denigration of profit motivation is all but destroyed VAMs. Is sad but true. I can remember years ago when I was very young and came on VAMworld (2005? 2006?) it was a constant battle. Since I sold VAMs and was young, I was the bad guy to some. I literally got kicked off VW1 while all the older purists that were flaming me did not, and some are still here posting even today. When talking to some of the biggest names in the hobby that were still posting at that time and watched everything happen, they weren't even sure why I got kicked off.

I'm back now, but I don't do much with VAMs. It kind of ruined it for me. I moved on, became the numismatist for one of the largest coin shop chains in the country running the dollar desk, and then went on to Heritage, and now I'm a dealer. VAMs are a distant memory. I have a pile of discoveries that I never even sent in. At times is it seemed like an old boys club.

But the unspoken reality is a lot of people don't want more people getting into VAMs. They don't want more competition while trying to cherry pick.

So now, if you go on social media, Penny roll hunting and variety collecting in general variety is HUGE and has about 1000 times as much interest as VAM collecting. And it's pretty much all young people. Because there's a profit motivation that isn't shamed. And honestly, it's worse than that, I've never seen anyone ever talking about VAMs.

We were consistently attacked and pushed away the younger generation whose profit motivations were constantly questioned, and as a result the VAM market is tanking. Because the younger collectors just don't care about them. Because number one, we've chased the next generation away, and number two, we've made the hobby overly technical to the point where the most obvious features often aren't even mentioned in the description.

And I'll bet a dollar that nothing will change. Because many don't want it to. I think I correctly assessed it about 15 years ago when I said that VW had become like cheers. It's a digital bar where a bunch of regulars hang out and shoot the breeze. Us four, no more. And therefore, that's what we're gonna get.

We've made our bed, now we must lie in it. And tbh there's actually quite a bit of drama on here. And as a result a lot of the luminaries that once posted here now do not. And I don't blame them. After the reception my last post received, I've all but stopped posting again. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Be careful what you build. Be careful what you wish for.