1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

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keilg1
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Location: Nottingham, UK

1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

Post by keilg1 » Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:46 am

Sorry if this has been asked before.

Curious if there's any speculation or study about the ordering of VAMs 31/40/110/162/200 with the lovel 'broken N & M' obverse?

The 40 and 200 lack the crack from the denticle through the first left star to the neckpoint, 145 and 162 start to show it, and 31 and 110 show it quite well.

Can't easily make out the other pups, such as any additional letter loss or other small features, apart from the crack between the 1 and 8 in the date which seems to follow the above ordering, too.

One additional note confusing things is that there clear mention of a LDS clashed ("fairly heavily 2-sided clash") but supposedly no letter transfer, clash lines that apparently also show up on the 145 indicating these were late in the show, not early on?

I'm interested because I'm still checking out if I have a VAM-200 clashed with letter transfer...
1878PV200GREd_FCO.jpg
1878PV200GREd_FCO.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 229 times
1878PV200GREd_FCR.jpg
1878PV200GREd_FCR.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 229 times

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vampicker
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Re: 1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

Post by vampicker » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:33 am

The N and M feature is a hub break. 3 different obverse dies are involved. For one, Jeff Oxman's 7/8TF guide listed it as VAM 40, then 31 then 110. The second is VAM 145 then 162 if I remember correctly. I'd have to look at them side by side in hand to verify that however. VAM 200 was the only use of that particular obverse. There are other dies from this working hub with less breaking showing
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vamnuke
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Re: 1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

Post by vamnuke » Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:59 am

vampicker wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:33 am
The N and M feature is a hub break. 3 different obverse dies are involved. For one, Jeff Oxman's 7/8TF guide listed it as VAM 40, then 31 then 110. The second is VAM 145 then 162 if I remember correctly. I'd have to look at them side by side in hand to verify that however. VAM 200 was the only use of that particular obverse. There are other dies from this working hub with less breaking showing
Yep; 145; EDS is obv PL; dies later clashed; obv clashing visible on 162. I’ve only seen 2-clashes on 145; not sure if there was just one event or if single clashed coins exist.

keilg1
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Re: 1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

Post by keilg1 » Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:11 pm

Ah, duh, hub issue not die-related - I remember that now!

Makes sense. Sorry I failed to mention the comment about clashing was about VAM-200. Nice reminder that the VAM-145 might have additional fun to find.

Here are FCOs for the two VAM-145s I own that both show clash lines but not necessarily letter transfer (but I'll need to look at them more closely now!). At least the second one appears to be a single clash?

Coin #1:
1878-Pv145_FCO_1637_GRed.jpg
1878-Pv145_FCO_1637_GRed.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 191 times

Coin #2:
1878-Pv145_FCO_6855_GRed.jpg
1878-Pv145_FCO_6855_GRed.jpg (238.38 KiB) Viewed 191 times

vamnuke
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Re: 1878-P 'broken N & M' obv die incest ordering?

Post by vamnuke » Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:12 pm

Glad a single-clashed one exists.

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