1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

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Jodemyer
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1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:25 am

I initially thought this was vam 10 from the reverse. But after looking at the date closely the obverse, with a chip in the top loop of the first 8, was not a match.
l Kept looking and found Vam 24. The die chip in the upper loop of the first 8 and the doubling of the date matches this one but nothing else on the obverse. No scribbles on chin, die gouge on cap or scratches through the E and R of liberty.
I am pretty positive these two vams share the same reverse.

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 0-S_VAM-24
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 0-S_VAM-10
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:30 am

A few more pics.
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:33 am

A few of the reverse.
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:35 am

A couple more.
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keilg1
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by keilg1 » Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:51 pm

I believe you're on to something. I've picked up a PL VAM-10 recently with the obverse clearly showing the crossbar - and definitely differing that your coin - but the reverse PUPs you've captured in your pictures are identical to what I see on the reverse of my coin.

Supposedly different - C3k and 3Cq - but man oh man do they look identical to me.

Might be a revision in the making imho...

Great eyes my friend. Be interested to hear what JB and/or JR will contribute.

Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:31 pm

@keilg1
Thanks for checking it out and checking your vam 10! I think this is exact match on the reverse for vam 10 and 24 but all I can find on obverse that matches is the vam 24 die chip in the 8 and the doubled date. So it has me scratching my head! (Which doesnt take much lol)
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:21 pm

I think its a 24 based on the description alone . As far as additional pictures on the wiki , the reverse shown sure looks like an exact match on all three coins to me as well . I can kinda see something in the ER of liberty on your coin ,but some of that stuff sucks to capture on film :lol:
Scribbles on chins probably fade doing a few thousand strikes I would guess ...
but i don't really know anything for sure its just speculation ,,,,
Keen eye !!!
Are you ready to accept the challenge of a die study ???
110 pairs WOW!!
Afraid I would not be able to afford that many coins ,
Was reading the other day in the VAM e page things about some of Alan's studies..
What a Herculean task !!!!
" May your clashes be EDS , your breaks be LDS , and your wife not have PMS over your collecting habits! " ;)

Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:50 pm

Thanks!@UNCLE BINGO I think 24 as well in some die state. Could of faded off die face or minted before placed onto die face I imagine.
I never could see the marks in Liberty that would match. I tried all the angles and filtered light, non filtered light, but I am probably missing it! Getting blinder as age progresses! haha! There are some marks around nose, just not on chin. The obverse has that basined or concave look and not too far from PL IMO.
I would love to be able to do a die study but as you stated I could never afford that! I still have a pile of books to go through! Plus I would become a hermit, which well really not too bad an idea now that I'm studying on it...haha!
Yep thats definitely a herculean task! My hats off in appreciation to all the people that do these studies. It really is amazing the amount of time and knowledge it takes and the education that it brings.
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keilg1
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by keilg1 » Mon Aug 14, 2023 6:19 am

I'm wondering if the reverse was first used for the 24 and then the 10 as the PL coin I have in hand has all the same rev PUPs as yours with the exception of the center of the bow being just as polished as the rest of the fields and very clear (and mirrored in this case!).

A few pics to show what I see:

Again, polished clean which is different than the 24 with it's die scratch lines?
1880SV10_rawPL-MM_and_bow_GRed.jpg
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And, not needed, but confirmation of the crossbar:
1880SV10_rawPL-crossbar_GRed.jpg
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Again, great eyes and somehing for John^2 to help decide worth noting.

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messydesk
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by messydesk » Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:41 pm

Neither reverse is pictured in the VAM book, so there's really no way to tell that they were ever different. The descriptions are essentially the same. @fogie has looked into 80-S for stuff like this, so perhaps he'll have a comment when he gets home from Pittsburgh.
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:51 pm

@keilg1
I overlayed the two bows the best I was able to. I was looking in particular at the scribbles/scratches in the top.
The first is mine fading to yours.
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:51 pm

Thanks!@messydesk
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Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:56 pm

Heres a pic of the doubled Eagle and a few more of the obverse.
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keilg1
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by keilg1 » Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:53 pm

Doubling of the eagle's head identical on mine... as is the doubled "In" shown on the VAM-10 page. Can't wait to hear from a recovered @fogie when he's back in the saddle...

Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:57 am

Any thoughts? @fogie
I still have not figured it out. Thanks in advance
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fogie
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by fogie » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:20 am

Sorry I forgot about this.... I am now home from the Long Beach Show and see I have been remiss... There is no doubt in my mind that you are correct about the common reverse. A good deal more than you may think! I have (4) slabbed 1880-S VAM-10 (1 ANACS AOH, 2 PCGS AOH & 1 self attributed) on my desk right now and the reverse MATCHES the reverse of the 1880-S VAM-24 that also is sitting on my desk right now (LVA attributed). What is really quite interesting (and muddys the water a bit) is that my 1880-S VAM-24 (obverse) does NOT seem to match yours! Now it looks like there are 3 pieces that use this same reverse! ("All" 1880-S VAM-10, your 1880-S VAM-24 and my 1880-S VAM-24). We may need to coordinate a mailing to JB @messydesk of our 24s to get that mess sorted out.
Have a great day!

Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:45 am

Thankyou! That is interesting!@fogie
I am getting together a few to send to JB @messydesk currently and will be glad to throw this one in! I appreciate you checking it out!
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messydesk
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by messydesk » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:53 am

When coins from multiple people need to be compared, it's best to coordinate submissions so that the coins in question arrive at roughly the same time.
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fogie
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by fogie » Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:28 am

I can ship this week...
Have a great day!

Jodemyer
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Re: 1880s I think vam24 reverse is same as vam 10

Post by Jodemyer » Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:51 am

I can ship this week as well , tommorrow if needed. @messydesk @fogie
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