1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

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keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:53 pm

I thought this a nice, but likely, plain Jane (no offense to Janes out there) variety.

Now I'm perplexed, having marched through all variations looking for a fit. Ended up having a fit (or two) but no success.

The short story: clear B2 reverse, 4th star broken, r in trust broken, closed o in God, some doubling but nothing I can line up, and a whole bunch of PUPs that has brought about the conundrum.

Sorry there'll be a lot of pictures to follow but I'd like you to see what I see. Whomever points out the blindingly obvious answer will have my respect but I will also loathe you for seeing what I couldn't. First photos, the standard stuff; the additional ones, the fun/frustrating stuff.

Thanks in advance for your patience and input.

FCO:
78PB2rev386GRed_FCO.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_FCO.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 299 times

FCR:
78PB2rev386GRed_FCR.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_FCR.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 299 times

Broken 4th right star:
78PB2rev386GRed_broken 4th star.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_broken 4th star.jpg (192.06 KiB) Viewed 299 times

Closed o (God):
78PB2rev386GRed_closed o God.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_closed o God.jpg (145.75 KiB) Viewed 299 times

Broken r (trust):
78PB2rev386GRed_broken trust.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_broken trust.jpg (160.98 KiB) Viewed 299 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:56 pm

Next batches, the obverse PUPs:

Triple scratches inside the ear:
78PB2rev386GRed_ear scratches.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_ear scratches.jpg (169.47 KiB) Viewed 298 times

A wonderful scratch in the bonnet fold:
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch cap fold.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch cap fold.jpg (145.22 KiB) Viewed 298 times

No strong scratches within a doubled LIBERTY:
78PB2rev386GRed_2x LIBERTY with scratches.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_2x LIBERTY with scratches.jpg (144.57 KiB) Viewed 298 times

And, a bit of fun with the date: doubled 7 (ish)
78PB2rev386GRed_878.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_878.jpg (149.39 KiB) Viewed 298 times

And something that looks to be something in the denticle space (but not a MPD, I don't think):
78PB2rev386GRed_denticle below 7 details.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_denticle below 7 details.jpg (160.35 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:58 pm

More on the obverse.

Die scratches galore:
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches hair ribbon.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches hair ribbon.jpg (158.43 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches hair and claw.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches hair and claw.jpg (153.62 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches cotton leaf onto cap.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches cotton leaf onto cap.jpg (166.24 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches above hair vee.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches above hair vee.jpg (157.91 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch lower cotton leaf.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch lower cotton leaf.jpg (153.66 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:00 pm

More obverse fun:
78PB2rev386GRed_spike above eyelid and die scratches.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_spike above eyelid and die scratches.jpg (141.76 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_scratches near cotton leaf.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_scratches near cotton leaf.jpg (167.59 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_hair D area.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_hair D area.jpg (186 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_hair curl and ear chips.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_hair curl and ear chips.jpg (151.8 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_full nostril with chip inside.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_full nostril with chip inside.jpg (158.5 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:02 pm

And, finally, some MINOR die cracking along the left stars that might help ID this:
78PB2rev386GRed_crack 4th and 5th left star.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_crack 4th and 5th left star.jpg (79.39 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_cracks 5th to 6th left stars.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_cracks 5th to 6th left stars.jpg (77.73 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_cracks 6th to 7th star left.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_cracks 6th to 7th star left.jpg (98.71 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_crack 7th star left to E.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_crack 7th star left to E.jpg (120.28 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_E (PLUR).jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_E (PLUR).jpg (125.44 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:03 pm

Enough of the obverse (although there's more), here's the reverse.
Attachments
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch right middle wing.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch right middle wing.jpg (141.09 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch first cluster on left.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch first cluster on left.jpg (152.46 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_body left wing junction scratches.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_body left wing junction scratches.jpg (213.06 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_2x feet (DOLL)AR.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_2x feet (DOLL)AR.jpg (87.3 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_(RIC)A and star dies chips.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_(RIC)A and star dies chips.jpg (99.66 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:05 pm

And:
Attachments
78PB2rev386GRed_short nock.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_short nock.jpg (124.39 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_engraved tail feather area.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_engraved tail feather area.jpg (164.4 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches middle lower eagle and legs.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches middle lower eagle and legs.jpg (165.24 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches lower right wing.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratches lower right wing.jpg (108.19 KiB) Viewed 298 times
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch tail feathers to bow and within bow.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_die scratch tail feathers to bow and within bow.jpg (134.82 KiB) Viewed 298 times

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:07 pm

Finally, and thanks for your patience!
Attachments
78PB2rev386GRed_oF wing crack.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_oF wing crack.jpg (94.58 KiB) Viewed 297 times
78PB2rev386GRed_ES_O crack.jpg
78PB2rev386GRed_ES_O crack.jpg (91.42 KiB) Viewed 297 times

Vam-mysterio
Posts: 818
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by Vam-mysterio » Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:56 pm

Nice
Vam 186A (v183)
Challenge yourself,start doing your own date study!

vamnuke
Posts: 1034
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:57 pm

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by vamnuke » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:46 pm

Scarce; my discovery back in the day; usually PL. Nice find…

keilg1
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by keilg1 » Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:23 am

vamnuke wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:46 pm
Scarce; my discovery back in the day; usually PL. Nice find…
Bloody 'ell this is a FUN coin. I marched past it after looking briefly because my coin has a lot more going on than described. I suspect this is an earlier die state but would love to hear from the owners of the 15 or so others (SSDC registry) if they also see such deep scratch lines and the fun die polishing lines.

I can post a few additional pictures onto the page if the community thinks they'd help inform others (and generate more interest!).

vamnuke
Posts: 1034
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:57 pm

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by vamnuke » Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:22 pm

Die crack on reverse tells me this is a later die state…

vamsterdam
Posts: 1274
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:48 am

Re: 1878-P B2 reverse conundrum - guru input welcomed

Post by vamsterdam » Fri Mar 31, 2023 6:06 pm

Lots of super sharp people here.

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