what's with this S? (1921-P)

[DHalladay]

I was looking through my 1921-P set for "Bean Bottom S" coins when I ran across this VAM 1BT Discovery Piece. I have no clue what is going on in the bottom loop of the 2nd S in STATES. Here are several photos, with the light source coming from slightly different angles and the ANACS holder slightly tilted to make the feature stand out better.

Might someone know what caused this? Hint hint @messydesk @vampicker

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-1.jpg (340.41 KiB) Viewed 607 times

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-2.jpg (331.1 KiB) Viewed 607 times

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-3.jpg (310.62 KiB) Viewed 607 times

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-4.jpg (308.93 KiB) Viewed 607 times

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-5.jpg (313.87 KiB) Viewed 607 times

[UNCLE BINGO]

I wanna guess its a crack in the plancet , knowing i could be wrong ... improper annealed silver . maybe ?????

[messydesk]

Until I got to the last picture, I was thinking "poke it with a stick." Looks like it could be a tiny bit of "Longacre doubling."

[colwillys]

die shifting wile striking machine error .

[UNCLE BINGO]

this just reminds me of @Geseas anomaly on his 78 . it looks like it extends up on to the S where it meets it on the lower right .. this is why i want to get Ziess to build a coin scope version, with big optics and no stacking required... Picture borrowed From Dennis ,, it's pariodilla , its a treasure hunter disease I cant help it

DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-5 Dennis picture edit.jpg (311.27 KiB) Viewed 579 times

[UNCLE BINGO]

and JB knows way more than me so he is probably right . but I would make sure with pictures, cause i like looking at clouds sometimes

[vampicker]

I think it's pushed metal from hard hits nearby

[UNCLE BINGO]

@DHalladay I will guarantee you I will concede and fold like a cheap card table I just keep seeing these strange spider cracks on a few Morgan Dollars that the only way my brain comprehends them, is to think of them much like flint knaps on a arrowhead . stuff that cracks but does not flake . brittle metal might do that . It's kind of crystalline in structure... if there is no continuation in the anomaly up the S , and I apologize for referring to it as a MM in the pervious posts its a S On a 1921-P . ... A true test of photography skills for you , G says its not to hard to stack them . Does the crack looking thing go up the S or not ?

[Geseas]

this just reminds me of @Geseas anomaly on his 78 . it looks like it extends up on to the MM where it meets it on the lower right .. this is why i want to get Ziess to build a coin scope version, with big optics and no stacking required... Picture borrowed From Dennis ,, it's pariodilla , its a treasure hunter disease I cant help it DH 1921-P VAM 1BT S-5 Dennis picture edit.jpg

Great visual memory you have, Bob. I agree, It sure seems to be similar to me; but on a different scale.

Both have a raised plateau that seems to be part of the same field below. It reminds me of photographs of Geographical fault lines in Calif. A displaced field on a radial die crack may be similar...

I am going to guess the Photoshop App. can produce/manipulate those (focus) stacked images also. The camera I use does it with a push of a button, as long as you have enough light available.

Thanks for all your shared insights!

[RogerB]

The photo appears to show die distortion caused by local stress during manufacture. This is possibly an early strike from a new rev die before metal movement blurred the crystal boundary defect.

(It could also be a tuna salad on rye, with a pickle on the side.)

[iwillbenice]

Another form of lamination.

[DHalladay]

Just to repeat from my initial post in this thread, all of my photos are the 2nd S in STATES on a 1921-P.

[UNCLE BINGO]

Just to repeat from my initial post in this thread, all of my photos are the 2nd S in STATES on a 1921-P.

That's my bad I called it a MM by accident,, sorry about that ....

[LateDateMorganGuy]

Just a guess, but what about an occluded gas bubble that got squeezed out under the S in the direction of planchet metal flow? Or, for some reason a thicker planchet in that area that did the same thing? Just ideas.

[Geseas]

I am compelled to share with you just a few of the [places] I have visited because of this thread. This is gleaned from a search of my [history]:
http://numissociety.com/content.php?135 ... discussion

https://www.google.com/search?q=metal+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins ... -die-.html

https://www.mindat.org/paleo_loc.php?id=82753

[alefzero]

Well, opening this thread was a let down, Dennis. I thought you had finally capitulated and started on 1921-S Morgans too.

[Geseas]

@alefzero

I just couldn't let this slide beneath without a request for a few more photographs from Dennis..

Is this a die scratch?

DH.jpeg (577.36 KiB) Viewed 339 times

I did have a question also:

What are the differences between MM and any other device once it is on the working die?

[Albannach]

I see "Flat and Shelf like", but not your typical MPD in shape.
Curious.
My first thought is very light grease filled, based on directionality on the "upper" edges...Cool regardless, I like it.

I want everyone to stay focussed on what is 10x visible here. Lets not pick pepper out of fly shit quite yet...except of course for the line in TA...

I totally agree with Roger, it's a very Early punch state, the S is also legally tripled , whether you see it @ 10x or not I will wait for an answer on please.

Can I see the Full rev. please

[UNCLE BINGO]

I am compelled to share with you a few of the [places] I have visited because of this thread. This is gleaned from a search of my [history]:

https://www.google.com/search?q=metal+m ... e&ie=UTF-8

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins ... -die-.html

https://www.mindat.org/paleo_loc.php?id=82753

Hi G This one is better , there is an extremely long story with myself and that particular misspelled word .... The secret is in the context , but this is not the place for such a thing .https://www.google.com/search?q=pareido ... e&ie=UTF-8