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1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:12 pm
by lhnumis1
Does anyone have a similar example of the 1889 imaged below? Have been unable to find an example among the VAM 1889s. Additional images in follow-up post.
Unusual features-
Doubled & tripled right cotton boll
Tripled & quad tail feathers
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV.jpg
Obverse
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV.jpg (60.17 KiB) Viewed 571 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV2.jpg
Right cotton boll, red arrows dbld, yellow arrows trpld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV2.jpg (31.4 KiB) Viewed 571 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV7.jpg
Ear inside right dbld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV7.jpg (30.51 KiB) Viewed 571 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV3.jpg
Ear outside upper right slightly dbld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV3.jpg (32.45 KiB) Viewed 571 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV4.jpg
Ear bottom slightly dbld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV4.jpg (31.66 KiB) Viewed 571 times

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:39 pm
by lhnumis1
Additional images below:
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV5.jpg
Line at upper right in R of LIBERTY.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV5.jpg (13.11 KiB) Viewed 568 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV6.jpg
Two die chips & two horizontal lines in cotton leaf-wheat leaf void.
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV6.jpg (25.3 KiB) Viewed 568 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV8.jpg
Date
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV8.jpg (42.99 KiB) Viewed 568 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV9.jpg
1 setting: cusp of normal & far date?
DOLLAR1889LOT444OBV9.jpg (46.68 KiB) Viewed 568 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV.jpg
Reverse
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV.jpg (64.35 KiB) Viewed 568 times

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:54 pm
by lhnumis1
Additional images:
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV2.jpg
Top arrowhead trpld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV2.jpg (31.4 KiB) Viewed 564 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV3.jpg
Tail feathers 1,2,3,4:quad, quad, trpld, dbld respectively.
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV3.jpg (22.61 KiB) Viewed 564 times
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV4.jpg
Tail feathers: 5,6,7 all dbld.
DOLLAR1889LOT444REV4.jpg (20.51 KiB) Viewed 564 times

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:35 pm
by PacificWR
Look for a high 9 in the date.

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:47 am
by blaircountycoin
Did you look closely at Vam 21?

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:57 pm
by messydesk
89 is tricky to attribute because of all the doubled ears. Most of these are due to die fatigue, so the degree of doubling actually changes a little over time. Go through the 1889 Doubled Ear page. That should help with this one.

Re: 1889 dbld, trpld cotton boll, trpld, quad tailfeathers

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 11:55 pm
by lhnumis1
Thanks to PacificWR and blaircountycoin & messydesk for respondingā€¦much appreciated.

It appears that I have drawn a blank on all 1889 VAMs. Normal dates, normal dates with doubled ears, far dates, far dates with doubled ears etc. I also went through the doubled ear breakdown separately, hoping that something would show up that I missed on the date placement breakdown. All have come up short for the CIH. Below find a listing of all VAM doubled ears. It is of course possible that I missed something.

The VAM21 web page indicates the die gouge under the wing and the die polishing line emerging to the right from tail feather 3 as primary markers. These do not manifest on the CIH. In addition, below find the date placement for the VAM21. Note that it appears to be a far date with a shot at a very far date. Though this is not crucial, the die chip in the red ellipse is absent from the CIH. Comparing with the date setting of the CIH above which shows the date on the cusp of normal date & far date, indicates lack of a match.
SWH2_1889P_VAM21_Date.jpg
VAM21 date placement
SWH2_1889P_VAM21_Date.jpg (50.74 KiB) Viewed 454 times


The high 9s appear in many of the VAMs but in the case of the CIH, although a factor, in most cases other factors preclude a match.


Thanks again to all for taking the time to help!
SRS(lhnumis1)

VAM# Problem(s)

Near dates
27 Near date-CIH normal right edge

Normal dates
15 Doubled arrow feathers & shafts-absent in CIH

20 Scratch on ear, doubled profile, dot under 2nd U of PLURIBUS-absent on CIH.

30 Date placement incorrect-normal left; hair curls doubled-absent on CIH

36 Doubled arrow feathers, many die cracks-absent on CIH

37 Date placement normal-CIH date placement normal right edge

46 Date placement normal left-CIH date placement normal right edge

47 Polishing lines in wing-CIH absent polishing lines

48 2 long polishing lines-CIH absent 2 polishing lines

52 Neck gouge, star gouge, die scratches @ tail feathers-absent in CIH.

Normal slanted dates
7A 7 die markers-all absent on CIH
7B 6 die markers-absent or different from CIH
33 Date placement normal-date placement normal right edge for CIH

Far dates
3 18-9 doubled-doubling absent in CIH

3A Doubled date-doubled date absent in CIH

6 Doubled 9, tripled 1-no doubled or tripled numerals in CIH

16 Doubled ear, doubled hair above ear, doubled right stars-doubled hair above ear, doubled
right stars absent in CIH; doubled ear present but in different configuration in CIH

21 Discussed aboveā€¦not adequate

24 Strong lines in cotton bolls, 2nd 8 in denticles & heavy die gouge at end of hair ribbon-all
features listed absent in CIH

25 Doubled ear, slightly doubled hair curls at left, polishing line rt. of ear top-doubled ear present in somewhat different configuration; slightly doubled hair curls at left & polishing lines absent in CIH

28 Doubled ear, date set normal right edge, die scratch from Y top right in LIBERTY-Doubled ear with different configuration in CIH, date setting is correct for CIH, die scratch absent in CIH

28A 28 with pitted die @ DO of DOLLAR-absent in CIH

31 Doubled ear, date actually set at normal right edge, strong lines in the E of LIBERTY, strong clash from right wing to G of God-doubled ear is different in detail, date is correct but for the die chips in the 8s, wrong designation as far date and the closed 9, lines in E & strong clash are absent from the CIH

38 Ear doubled, die chip @ upper outside right of ear, fine diagonal lines @ cotton bolls-ear doubled differently in detail, die chip & fine lines absent in CIH

39 Doubled ear, doubled hair curl, doubled cotton leaves-ear doubling different in detail, doubled hair curl & cotton leaves absent in CIH

40 Doubled ear, lines in nose, polishing lines in cotton bolls-ear doubling different in detail, lines in nose & polishing lines in cotton bolls absent

42 Doubled ear, doubled lower cotton leaves, doubled right stars 4,5,6-ear doubling different in detail, doubling of cotton leaves & right stars 4,5,6 absent in CIH

57 Doubled ear, die scratches in hair-Doubled ear different in detail, die scratches in hair absent in CIH

60 Doubled ear, die lines @ liberty cap bottom-doubled ear different in detail, die lines @ cap bottom absent in CIH

61 Doubled ear, die line in Y of LIBERTY & line above Y-doubled ear different in detail, die line in Y of LIBERTY & line above Y absent in CIH

Very far dates and very far slanted dates do not pertain.