No, I am certain a clash would not explain it. A clash of a working die would not result in a raised area above the B, as it would have to be deeper into the B image. I have played with the idea in my head of someone trying to clear out a filled die by making an S shape through the B design with some sort of cutting tool, but what I see on examination of the coin is too smooth for that. I still can't explain the effect.
Thank you very much for those images. The overlay of the S over the B (the last you posted) looks most like what I see, if you rotated the S just a couple degrees counterclockwise. However, as your overlay suggests, areas of the B would be much more wide at certain places if the B had been engraved or punched with the working hub first and then the S engraved or punched over the B, therefore it would distorted. (Yes, I know that is not how the die production process occurred, I am just stretching my imagination to explain this).
Agree. I'll remain in the 'not seeing this' and 'not following the explanation' camp. Fascinating discussion and definitely to be encouraged. In the end, though, all must get to some state of validation - and we're not there yet.
Taking your B+S overlay, I cropped it and used paint to fill in the parts of the S that would have been removed if you started with an S and engraved a B over the top of it, as in the Master Hub. The image you get is almost identical to the image of the B on my coin. The only improvements I would have to make to create an exact image is to rotate the S a tiny bit counterclockwise and shift the S down a tiny bit.
I will try to get a clearer picture. The only camera I have does an autofocus thing, and I think this image appeared because it autofocused on the top of the highest features, which when I examine under magnification is how the S shows up. Magnifying down to the area where the rest of the B looks clear, the S disappears, so it is clearly the very top of the letter that shows the S, which makes sense if this occurred when the Galvano was being transferred to the Master Hub. I cannot think of any other way this could have happened. When you focus on magnification to the top of the letter B, the S is very distinct (I used to be a technologist and used microscopes all the time). If I try to get the camera to focus on the fields (lower down), the image of the S is not apparent. (try that with a camera or a camcorder, as you zoom into things in the distance, close objects disappear or blur out) Getting a clear picture of the letters will probably focus past the S and make the B distinct, but will obscure the S, but I will try that.keilg1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:46 amSorry, meant to ask if you can show up-close pictures of the original coin posted (specifically all the letters - RIBUS). No other coins will necessarily help us as much as the original that shows what you think you're seeing.
A bit confused, too, beause anything that supposedly happened to a master die would be seen on, literally, tens of thousands (if not closer to millions) of other coins as the master created multiple working versions that would all carry the effect forward?
Thanks,
Also to this point, as this hypothetical Master Hub is used to create multiple Master Dies, and then those Master Dies are used to create multiple Working Hubs, and those Working Hubs are used to make multiple Working Dies, each time this is done, a very shallow surface feature is going to become less apparent. I don't know how many times this feature would transfer where it would be noticeable. It could have only been distinct on the first one or two Master Dies, then the first one or two Working Hubs, then the first one or two Working dies. So it may only be visible on a few thousand coins, and would be one of the first features to wear off in circulation, so may only be clear on uncirculated coins.
I have fallen for purchasing coins online several times due to photographic effects as well. I would not have shown this if I had not checked it out with my own eyes. But thank you for your comments. I will be happy to let anyone view the coin and make any decision for themselves. I am meeting with a friend tomorrow who is a photographer, and I will ask if she can help get some better shots. I have not been able to get any, I come up with better shots of the slab than the coin, and the surface is too reflective to capture a good photo. No, the S is not the result of a reflection. As for myself, I came onto here to try to get some help resolving my questions, which I have done. I am convinced that I have a good explanation for the origination of the S, which I am certain overlies the B. The overlay images were immensely helpful. In an effort to further this hobby for other people, and to repay the kindness of the people that have offered me help on this site, I am going to try to furnish better photos. I do not feel that I need to convince anyone else, but am happy to allow anyone to view the coin that wishes to do so. However, I have no interest in sending the coin to anyone for re-slabbing or any such thing.Albannach wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:10 pmGoing back to your slab shots....I'd call what you are seeing "slab filtering". I have fallen prey to it many times. I've even speculated the coin from the pics is not the coin I recieved.
The distortion could easily be light reflection during the photograph.
