1886VAM?

[lhnumis1]

Does anyone have an example of this 1886? I refer to it as the ‘square root with gouge’. Additional images in follow-up post.

Obverse

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV.jpg (57.39 KiB) Viewed 259 times

1 set at right of normal

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV2.jpg (52.5 KiB) Viewed 259 times

6 doubled at top right; also, top loop filled completely with raised horizontal lines

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV3.jpg (32.36 KiB) Viewed 259 times

Sqiare root:red arrows, gouge:yellow arrows adjacent on neck

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV4.jpg (41.43 KiB) Viewed 259 times

Gouge highlighted in yellow ellipse

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV5.jpg (38.98 KiB) Viewed 259 times

[lhnumis1]

Below find additional images of this same 1886.

Square root-red ellipse, gouge-yellow ellipse.

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV6.jpg (21.86 KiB) Viewed 254 times

Strong vertical raised line at left end of liberty cap ribbon.

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV7.jpg (23.15 KiB) Viewed 254 times

Reverse

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV.jpg (66.04 KiB) Viewed 254 times

Eagle eye and nostril bases filled with fine raised horizontal lines.

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV2.jpg (54.1 KiB) Viewed 254 times

[blaircountycoin]

Take a close look at VAM 1P. It has lines in the upper loop of 6.

[keilg1]

One near and dear to my heart.

I'll need to pull it out of storage to verify but the FCP of the obverse does look to have the same thing - that I and LVA might have missed...

Other PUP pictures that might help are below. LVA did not include these so they're unofficial but they do come from the discovery coin. If you see these, you've got what I believe is only the second reported 1P. Not that they're likely that rare, but wouldn't that be nice if they were?!

1886P Vam-1P DC POPs ribbon bow GR.jpg (84.84 KiB) Viewed 243 times

1886P Vam-1P DC PUP field line olive branch tip GR.jpg (105.5 KiB) Viewed 243 times

1886P Vam-1P DC Arrow shafts GR.jpg (101.02 KiB) Viewed 243 times

[lhnumis1]

Below find additional images; tow more images in following post:
It appears that the void to the right of ribbon of the CIH does not match V1P.
It appears the wing-neck void of the CIH does not match the wing-neck void of V1P.
The TY lines of LIBERTY in the V1P are absent in the CIH, but it does exhibit a strong line at the upper left serif of the ‘I’ in LIBERTY.
Also absent in the CIH, is the die scratch through the olive branch present in V1P.
The lines below the Phrygian cap fold in the CIH do not match those of V1P.
Lastly- In examining the date it appears that VAM1P is set at a ‘normal’ ~2.5, whereas the CIH is set right of normal at ~2.8.

Strong line in 'i of LIBERTY'.

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV10.jpg (10.59 KiB) Viewed 230 times

Lines below Phrygian cap fold.

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV13.jpg (16.81 KiB) Viewed 230 times

Lines etc., in win-neck gap.

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV3.jpg (62.79 KiB) Viewed 230 times

Lines etc., in void right of the ribbon.

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV4.jpg (40.24 KiB) Viewed 230 times

[lhnumis1]

Below find two additional images for comparison...

Date setting of Coin In Hand

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV2.jpg (52.5 KiB) Viewed 229 times

Date setting of VAM 1P

1886P_VAM-1P_full_obv_GR (1).jpg (181.03 KiB) Viewed 229 times

[andywoj00]

Hard to tell in the pics....Maybe V27 or V27A? Being a Normal Right date with that diagonal polish line in the I of Liberty points towards the V27.
However.....
V27 was delisted saying it was the same as V29. V29 is a Normal Left Date.
V27A was delisted as a dupe of V19, which is a Normal Right date.

[blaircountycoin]

Sorry. Just trying to help. The 1P was the only one that mentioned lines in top of 6 loop.

[lhnumis1]

Thanks to blaircountycoin, keilg1 and andywoj00 for reponding...it is much appreciated. I think I have a new VAM and at the moment the images seem to hold up…but that may change in a moment should images be supplied that match the CIH.
Here are several additional images that the CIH exhibits.

Slight doubling at top of liberty cap, right side

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV11.jpg (26.67 KiB) Viewed 209 times

Slight doubling at top of liberty cap, left side.
Doubling is absent in the middle.

DOLLAR1886LOT434OBV12.jpg (17.3 KiB) Viewed 209 times

[keilg1]

Yup, definitely not the 1P as I don't see anything on the neck of the DC. This feature is fascinting to me, beyond it looking like a square root. It might have been PMD from a long time ago that then got worn down to make it look like a die gouge because I've not seen any die gouge go one direction, turn 90 degrees, then 45degrees, then angle again...

I could be wrong and am, thus, interested in what you find out!

[lhnumis1]

When examining this coin the third time around…I was looking for evidence of a clash mark by the neck-jaw junction. I rotated the coin 90° & a discontinuity caught my attention. When seeing it, I had difficulty believing what I saw.

First…the coin appears to me to be an MS63…less charitably MS62. Next, original mint frost and full cartwheel effect is evident. Contact marks are evident (and expected), but evidence of loss of luster due to friction (wear) is not evident. The entire ‘Square root” is fully frosted except for a single bright contact mark at the bottom of the ‘vee’.

This appears to mean that, whatever it is, it was in the die at the mint prior to strike and thus not PMD. My analysis may of course be incorrect…but seems logically right to me. My conclusion…a whimsy done by a mint employee in an idle moment.

I can also explain it as purely accidental…die dropped onto some object that imprinted the “square root”. Die gouges, such as the one adjacent to the “square root” are rather common and need no further explanation. Perhaps other explanations may prove more palatable.

Thanks keilg1 for sharing your insight and taking the time to reply.

[lhnumis1]

Two additional images of reverse markers exhibited by the CIH.

Small die gouge on 5th inner feather from the base, of the eagles left wing.

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV5.jpg (25.43 KiB) Viewed 166 times

vertical die scratch between the eagle's breast feathers and the innermost feathers of the right wing.

DOLLAR1886LOT434REV6.jpg (14.63 KiB) Viewed 166 times

[keilg1]

Nice additional pictures. Sorry to add nothing really connecting with what I know. I'll hope those more experienced can take over and help guide you to a final determination.

Thanks for allowing me to participate - I keep learning as I go along.