1883-O Clash OBV/REV cannot find VAM match

[TMK]

Turning to the VAM team for help again.

I have two slabbed 1883-Os (one in a PCGS OGH @ MS64, the other in a newer PCGS holder @ MS63).

They both exhibit the same pattern of OBV and REV clashes, although the OGH MS64 seems to be a later progression and more pronounced.

The OGH MS64 shows:

• OBV: Clashes at the lips and a clash from the neck (at below the chin/neck connection). Can’t really get a shot of it, but a cylinder-like feature lined up against the neckline a bit below the clash at the neck. Lots of pitting.
  REV: Clash extending up from the left wing to the “n”, what appears to be a partial E in the left top stalk, and a wing-like clash on the right top stalk. Some pitting.

The MS63 shows:

• OBV: Clash from the neck (at below the chin/neck connection). No clashes at the lips.
  REV: Faint clash extending up from the left wing to the “n”, nothing in the left top stalk (no E) but there is a wing-like clash on the right top stalk.

The PCGS MS63 (TrueView here - https://www.pcgs.com/cert/45453201 doesn’t do a good job of showing the clashes at all, they are washed out so I will include other photos)

These don't look like the 1C or 1F families. Some similarity to 21A, but no clashed M above God on the REV. Not 22A either bummer (no E under tail feathers, no clashing above bonnet on OBV, etc.) nor a 36A. Not a 44A either (neck clash in the wrong spot).

I am only going to post pictures of the OGH MS64.

I’m sorry if this has been asked before (I read an early post that this is possibly the original die pair and considered VAM-1?). Am I missing something in the 1C1/2, etc.?

Thanks again for the help

[TMK]

Some additional photos with different lighting.

[raynat3]

I believe the two coins are different. Based on the tru view reverse i think that is either 23 series or 35 which share the same reverse die and the clash on the n is left inside where as your other coin is clashed at right inside of n.

The date, ear, mm, wing gap would help you to identify your other coin. The 83-0 pages on VW show much of this info.

[keilg1]

Love to help in the hunt. I'd definitely divide to conquer - looking at each separately versus trying to figure them both out at once.

The 83-O series is full of mimics so seeing each major PUP area clearly is necessary. Agree with @raynat3, date, MM, etc. would help a lot.

[TMK]

Thanks for the feedback and help. I agree, I’m most interested in the OGH one, so that is what I am focusing on. I’ve attached some additional photos, concentrating on the MM and date. I have others I can share.

It definitely looks like I have a repunched MM, something I missed the first time around. What’s frustrating is that it doesn’t match (at least to me) the ones I can see on the REV listing.

The MM looks kind of like the VAM-3 (O/O right) C3b reverse, except I have an additional line running horizontally. I also don’t have the gouge noted in the RT of LIBERTY which is supposed to be present on both a VAM-3/3A

[keilg1]

Great pictures. I think your original thought on http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... -O_VAM-21A is a good one but not quite correct. If there was a clash with letter transfer (creating the 21A) then the die got worn down so the letter transfer disappears... as it might be with yours... the 21A would revert back to a straight 21 - of course, with slightly different PUPs.

Hope this makes sense.

[TMK]

Thanks @ keilg1. I am thinking that this is a 21A. The lines in the MM match those in VAM listing. I was able to find an eBay picture for a 21A that highlights the n clash on the obverse - I can see one leg of the n (what I described as a cylinder in my first post) very faintly by the neckline on this coin. I'm thinking this is one is solved perhaps!