1892 V 3 partial collar question

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UNCLE BINGO
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1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:34 am

So after much debate with myself this coin spent a week in acetone, and then 3.4 seconds in dip . I knew the risk going in but the toning was not flattering, IN fact it was borderline hideous. :lol: I shall call it vam 3 after a little study even though there is a small amount of profile doubling I could not find the markers to take it to a v 5,,,,,, normal date / short list ..... it ended up not too bad other than the high points an the bottom reverse {arrows and wreath} show hairlines all in a horizontal direction.... it's not too noticeable in hand and the field seems immune , but under reduced light its is bad ... Wishing someone would just say it was striation, but like i said I knew the risks going in :lol:

My question is about partial collar I guess , always just looking for that little something special like we all do..How far out of whack do the edges need to be before it counts ?Probably very common I would guess, coins getting a little off center while being struck , but i was just curious ,,,, if the reverse about 8 o'clock would have kept going I might have got a cud . :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: thank you in advance
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Last edited by UNCLE BINGO on Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:39 am

terrible horizontal nonsense :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:55 am

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messydesk
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by messydesk » Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:51 am

A partial collar is when the planchet is not fully surrounded by the collar die when struck. The edge of the coin will have reeds that don't extend the entire thickness of the coin. They're also called "railroad rims," because the edge has the shape of a train wheel.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:57 am

Thank you , i will look at it more , as you can see I was confused by an off center strike I guess . There were not many examples in Morgans that i found doing a search so I really just wanted to know.
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:13 pm

My apologies , as you can see i need to actually read everything while searching and not just look at the pictures... off center strike and partial collar are in fact two separate things . :lol: http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ial_Collar sorry for the confusion
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:39 pm

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:13 pm
My apologies , as you can see i need to actually read everything while searching and not just look at the pictures... off center strike and partial collar are in fact two separate things . :lol: http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ial_Collar sorry for the confusion
Thanks Bob. I enjoy your contributions. You are a busy man. May I ask how you went about finding that page/Link you included above? Was it just a search for 'Partial Collar' somewhere? Thanks

I was interested in the 1921-S that is pictured there. ( this may be how you properly Hijack a thread :) not my intention )
Last edited by Geseas on Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:49 pm

Ya I searched partial collar on the VW wiki page and it brought that up . I was just confused as to what partial collar actually was . My 92-P is not , i'ts just struck a little off center...as far as I know every V3 could be a little bit off center strike , very extensive doubling on it . I mean you don't have to squint to see it at all :D
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:16 pm

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:49 pm
Ya I searched partial collar on the VW wiki page and it brought that up . I was just confused as to what partial collar actually was . My 92-P is not , i'ts just struck a little off center...as far as I know every V3 could be a little bit off center strike , very extensive doubling on it . I mean you don't have to squint to see it at all :D
I was just confused as to what partial collar actually was.

I still am, but not for long...

It may be a little OT, but please take a look at this coin's edge.
gcs_1921-S P_rim.JPG
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Chamfered on both the Obv. & REV. coin edge? (not just one of the edges) How did the collar die do that? Reeds running down the middle; not out to either edge.
gcs r_arow (1).jpg
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Rev. with a peened-over lip from
being above the collar and then circulated...maybe?

_
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COIN ID PHOTOS
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Last edited by Geseas on Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:14 pm

Hi G , so is that a train wheel Mister? Looks like one to me
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:08 am

It is one worn coin.

Here is a photo of a regular 1921-S coin edge... for comparison:
gcs_reg 21-s.JPG
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abt. same circ. wear.

...coin edge photos are not easy; but it may be the New unexplored Frontier for Vams. ;)
compare.jpg
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Last edited by Geseas on Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:13 am

Thanks G . you have really helped clear some things up . I am fascinated by the mechanics involved in all the clashing and rotations and now partial collars it would seem . Probably a hundred more mechanical things out there too i just don't know about them yet :lol:
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:34 am

The key to this partial collar business is that Edge View Photograph; as JB states above.

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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:46 pm

...I am curious what the edge view photo of this coin would look like.
1921-S_$1_Morgan_Silver_Dollar--Partial_Collar,_Cleaned--AU_Details_ANACS._Obverse_Slab (1).jpg
1921-S_$1_Morgan_Silver_Dollar--Partial_Collar,_Cleaned--AU_Details_ANACS._Obverse_Slab (1).jpg (49.38 KiB) Viewed 357 times

*http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... ial_Collar


any guesses? Thanks in advance.

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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by messydesk » Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:19 pm

Geseas wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:16 pm
It may be a little OT, but please take a look at this coin's edge.
gcs_1921-S P_rim.JPGGCS0206~2.JPG
Not off-topic at all, and important for people to learn. What is shown on your 21-S is not a partial collar. Remember that the collar die constrains expansion of the coin during striking. A partial collar will only show constrained expansion where the collar was present. Outside the collar, the planchet expands more during striking. This means that the reeded part has a smaller diameter than the unreeded part, which is the opposite of what is shown on the 21-S.
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:36 pm

Ok so now I am really confused :lol:
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:16 am

Google is your friend , they even have pictures >https://www.error-ref.com/partial-collar/ and i read something while actually trying to find a picture of a Morgan Dollar with it , that claimed Dr Fey says there may only be only a couple hundred
partial collar errors in Morgan dollars in existence . IS this true?https://www.numismaticnews.net/archive/ ... -certified

@Geseas is yours a reversed partial collar, or undulated or something else ?

They appear to be a little pricey :popcorn:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364026705792?c ... LsEALw_wcB

https://www.coinexchangeny.com/silver/m ... 18386.html

https://minterrornews.com/priceguidepartialcollar.html

After looking at the error price guide it looks like a guy should find a peace dollar with a partial collar , these things are all over the map :lol:
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:54 pm

...Bob, I grabbed your question from above; hope its OK to do:
UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:16 am



@Geseas is yours a reversed partial collar, or undulated or something else ?
All I can think of now is putting a 1/2 lb. of burger into the press. When you squeeze down the round ball of the burger, (the hammer unto the anvil with burger between) the middle of the edge of the burger is going to hit the collar first.

If you stop pushing all the way down now, you would get that bulged shape the edge of this coin has [i should add here a big IMO} :) ...maybe it didn't get pushed down enough?(weak strike) or, that wasn't really a 1/2 lb'er. (planchet error)

I will take some Lfcp's... Thanks for sharing, great fun.
gcs_21-s~2 (1).JPG
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gcs_21-s_rev.JPG
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*side note @uncle bingo... here is what came back on my Google Search attempt:https://www.google.com/search?q=planche ... YdpJXf89cM

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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:10 am

Hi G i love the "mistakes "that came out of the mints . I've got a unicorn on my hit list now . Maybe a cool clashed vam number in a holder attributed with a side of partial collar mint error added just for fun .... I've seen few while searching this topic for sale , now i just got to find just the right one . ;)









edit ;like I said G, a little pricey . they do seem a little more prevalent in the 21's maybehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/134391390019?c ... DoEALw_wcB
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Re: 1892 V 3 partial collar question

Post by Geseas » Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:17 pm

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:10 am
Hi G i love the "mistakes "that came out of the mints . I've got a unicorn on my hit list now . Maybe a cool clashed vam number in a holder attributed with a side of partial collar mint error added just for fun .... I've seen few while searching this topic for sale , now i just got to find just the right one . ;)

Hey Bob,

Good luck on that Unicorn. My 21-s did not work out as a partial collar as JB pointed out. So I ate that burger. :)

If you get some spare time; Can anyone guess the VAM of the above pictured 1921-s from those LFCP's? I have some ideas...easy to do with the 1921-S poor strikes.

I can attempt more photos... Thanks









edit ;like I said G, a little pricey . they do seem a little more prevalent in the 21's maybehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/134391390019?c ... DoEALw_wcB

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