1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Forum rules
All posts to this forum must abide by the posting rules. Continued posting to any VAMWorld forum constitutes acceptance of the rules.
Post Reply
TMK
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:24 am

1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by TMK » Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:29 pm

I have been a longtime lurker but noob VAM searcher, so please be gentle. 😉

I need some help on this 1891-CC that I recently purchased.

I have been trying to associate it to the VAM listings using the VAMWorld photos but by also downloading hi-res imagery from HA, GC, Stacks, etc. I will get better imagery of this as well using my microscope.

The REV is clearly a spitting eagle variety (so VAM-3 or VAM-7) and the OBV is a near date (so that would exclude VAM-7). I would have thought it was therefore a VAM-3 with OBV III2 4-, (please someone confirm doubling in the Liberty head profile (from nose down to jaw) – I see it, but then when I look away I don’t…)
What confuses me is the doubling both on the OBV and REV. I think it is machine doubling, but then when I look at it again, I am not so sure.

On the OBV, note the date doubling (first 1 it is most pronounced) but also the stars to the right of the date (which to me appear to have raised plateaus). Even the U and M of UNUM are doubled (note the spalling immediately to the left of the M).

On the REV, there is doubling along the lower right wing, and the eagle’s head, and left shoulder and left wing. The doubling of “In God We Trust” looks like that in the VAM-6, but none of the other text is doubled. The VAM-6 also doesn’t have the spitting eagle break.

Is it just as simple as this is a VAM-3 with machine doubling, or is it something else?

All help would be appreciated.
1891-CC OBV.jpg
1891-CC OBV.jpg (94.62 KiB) Viewed 215 times
1891-CC REV.jpg
1891-CC REV.jpg (99.94 KiB) Viewed 215 times
Attachments
1891-CC REV Head Closeup.jpg
1891-CC REV Head Closeup.jpg (57.59 KiB) Viewed 215 times
1891-CC OBV Stars Closeup.jpg
1891-CC OBV Stars Closeup.jpg (78.01 KiB) Viewed 215 times
1891-CC OBV Date Closeup.jpg
1891-CC OBV Date Closeup.jpg (64.29 KiB) Viewed 215 times

MarkyB
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by MarkyB » Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:40 pm

Seems like a 3. The clincher I think would be the line(s) above the arrowheads and near the left foot as viewed in the VAM 3 listing. GL

DHalladay
Posts: 2987
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm
Location: Boise, ID area

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by DHalladay » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:41 pm

It is VAM 3.
When in doubt... don't.

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3715
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by messydesk » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:16 pm

Yes, it's VAM 3. I don't see any actual doubling in your pictures. There may be machine doubling, but you might also be seeing reflections on the coins taking on the appearance of doubling.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

TMK
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:24 am

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by TMK » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:48 pm

I am struggling with this, I will try and get some better photos and changing the light around. I thought this was doubling (really close in on the date) but mind is likely playing tricks on me after staring at this thing for too many hours to count.. :D
1891-CC OBV Date Even Closer.JPG
1891-CC OBV Date Even Closer.JPG (40.93 KiB) Viewed 182 times

User avatar
LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:41 pm

The 1891-CC series has been reviewed exhaustively. When that is the case, it is best to put the coin aside and follow expert advice. Put a little white sticker on it and label it VAM-3 and move on.

lured_in_again
Posts: 591
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by lured_in_again » Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:40 pm

Often the vertical edge (relief) of date or lettering can appear to be doubling due to it being slanted rather than exactly vertical. (due to numbers and letters being wider where they hit the flat face of the coin than at the top --- if that makes sense) And as said, the option of strike doubling exists as well.

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 744
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:43 pm

@LateDateMorganGuy You know things , one of these days if time permits , I would like to pick your brain,,,,,, I really am sorry BTW , you might have to give me just a little bit of time to catch up , I hope you understand
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:03 am

Hey Unc, not sure what you are talking about. I usually just say whats on my mind and cut to the chase with VAM questions when I can.

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 744
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:23 am

k just wanted to make sure we are all good. Forums have no tone of voice kind of thing . I can see your die studies are essential to this hobby , like as in a really big part of deciding whats, what ...
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

MarkyB
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by MarkyB » Sat Jan 28, 2023 12:27 am

TMK wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:48 pm
I am struggling with this, I will try and get some better photos and changing the light around. I thought this was doubling (really close in on the date) but mind is likely playing tricks on me after staring at this thing for too many hours to count.. :D
You're doing fine. IMO identifying the forms of doubling is tricky. You've probably read the double die guide at the top of the forum. I see notches in your 1's, at least at the top, which the guide might lead you to die doubling. However, the listing doesn't mention a doubled date but does mention a doubled profile. Look a the full coin photo's. One has your doubling, the other doesn't. In short, match up whats listed as close to what's in front of you as possible and go with it. If the top dogs want to add the doubling to the listing, they'll get to it when time allows but don't count on it. Nice VAM 3 and Top 100!

TMK
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:24 am

Re: 1891-CC VAM-3 (or is it - HELP!)

Post by TMK » Sat Jan 28, 2023 2:11 am

Thanks to everyone who provided constructive feedback. I very much appreciate it.

At this point I will just return to the thread if I can capture any images of the doubling (but readily acknowledge might just be a lighting artifact). Very happy regardless. Nice coin and a great hobby.

I appreciate the help and a community that is willing to do so.

Post Reply