legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

[UNCLE BINGO]

Could someone please explain the VAM 2 Hamilton page for the 1880-O on VW >> There is a description for MM normal height and centered with 2 different LFCP one clearly has the MM shifted left but the other has it centered I think anyway . There is talk of 4 die pairings discovered originally , but one of them has been de listed I think ... I Just need some clarification about the one LFCP with the die cracks in the date and the MM on the reverse shifted to the left ..... thank you in advance

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if this is centered and upright i will apologize in advance. i just don't want to be the boards science project so i tried to figure this out and failed I guess

[UNCLE BINGO]

I'm just looking for the twin displayed in the LFCP on that page and don't see how the above pictured MM could be centered and upright, it got hit pretty hard but not enough to move it .

[UNCLE BINGO]

pretty sure this coin is the exact same obverse as the LFCP listed as VAM 2 Hamilton on that page , and Im confused I guess

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[UNCLE BINGO]

I even went as far as matching the PUPS listed for Vam 2B2 on the obverse , but failed to find that VAM paired with a shifted left MM...I could not diffidently see any clashed letter transfer on either side but that does not mean anything ... I'm not looking for anything new BTW just hunting a number ,

[UNCLE BINGO]

Might as well put the rest of the pictures up so I can delete the testing ones . I sorry I suck at this so bad ,,,,

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[UNCLE BINGO]

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[UNCLE BINGO]

The good news is the other 1880-O I had only took me 10 min after trying to figure this out on my own , and i finally figured out how to take a better pictures , see attached

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[MarkyB]

Delete: I was looking at the wrong (1888-O) listing.

[UNCLE BINGO]

I think i matched it to that LFCP ,, it just technically wrong as far as v2 descriptions go { still guessing here} ... i tried to guess using obverse and reverse die numbers but have no idea if this guess is even in the same area code

not sure you can do it like this at all , and its probably wrong but i tried

Obverse III21
Reverse C3m

[UNCLE BINGO]

If I'm wrong about the MM placement on this coin please tell me cause i spent two days tying to match it and failed comparing pictures vs VW ,, I might not be cut out for this gig , I did not even want to bring it up , just could not match it up .

[Mhomei]

Mr Hamilton was working on listings, he submitted
The topic coin to LVA, 2014?? It came back as a V2
That same year I submitted the Hill pair.
Also came back as V2.

For the sake of clarity it we asked LVA and he suggested using last names to document the different pairings but still V2 class

[UNCLE BINGO]

Thank you very much for the reply , this coin hung me up because I was using the attribution guides with the coin in hand . I'll bet I read the description at least a dozen times about MM centered and upright and just dismissed it . I am so new to this I question everything in trying to attribute my stuff .I will write V2 Hamilton on my spread sheet if that is how this is done . It just looked to me like both Mr. Hamilton's coin and my coin had a different reverse than what is listed for V2 . some of this is way above my pay grade .

[ljs123]

@UNCLE BINGO
Another tip is to remember that low number VAMs were likely discovered in the early days. Meaning that the date and mm designation may be different than the way we might list them today. If you are at this long enough, you will find dates and mm that you wonder why they are listed in a certain way. You might want to call it a far date but it was listed as normal, etc. That is why we should all post photos here and ask questions like you did. That way we can sort this type of thing out and be as consistent as possible in the listings.
Today some of us use a computer to draw lines from the denticles for date placement or under the bows for mm placement.
Was that how things were done in the early days?
I remember a day when we didn't have computers.

[UNCLE BINGO]

Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .

[Geseas]

Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .

Dear Bob,

I am enjoying your insights... but; You have asked about 3 questions in this one thread... and I am going to attempt to answer them all.

' An example may be in order here: I have edited this post. I would have been able to delete this post all together but a post was made after mine by Mhomei ( an on topic comment)... It took me a long time to realize this. You may have already known about this 'editing feature.' Can be most useful if used with some compassion.[/sizThanks for sharing everyone. Don't be shy about pushing those buttons

[Mhomei]

Yours is the same reverse as the Hamilton Die

[UNCLE BINGO]

Thank you for the reply I'm not arguing at all . The description on the VW page and my own misinterpretation was what led to the confusion . i never looked at the pictures for v2 cause I just didn't understand what variables can exist in the words Centered and upright , I hope that makes sense.

[UNCLE BINGO]

Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .

Dear Bob,

I am enjoying your insights... but; You have asked about 3 questions in this one thread... and I am going to attempt to answer them all.

' An example may be in order here: I have edited this post. I would have been able to delete this post all together but a post was made after mine by Mhomei ( an on topic comment)... It took me a long time to realize this. You may have already known about this 'editing feature.' Can be most useful if used with some compassion.[/sizThanks for sharing everyone. Don't be shy about pushing those buttons

I don't need to edit anything , you will just have to endure misspelled words, things like "your" instead of "you're" and a total lack of punctuation from me . Its a bad habit and I use to get teased about it a little ... I do need to amend the first post and say that both the Hamilton and Hill specimen pictured on the plate photos both have the MM slightly to the left of center for my untrained eye, that's just my opinion . I want to go home and break out the big book and see what the original V2 MM looks like if it is pictured , just to get a better idea for my own sanity what the words centered and upright meant.... everyone on here has said that VAMS are descriptive in nature and I'm not arguing at all , just trying to figure it out for myself is all ...

[Geseas]

Thank you for setting me straight. @UNCLE BINGO I apologize for my assumption.

I do not even own the big book, yet.

Onward,

This photo is of the two Reverses you are comparing? ( I hope I have it right.)

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(I will fill in above photo discription *here*)

(Better photos of the above.) *Discription now added.

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[UNCLE BINGO]

Were all good , The only fault I am calling out is my own . I would have picked up coin was VAM 2 if there was even a note on the page suggesting that the MM is not what one might think center is ( mainly for the newcomer} , I'm only sharing this experience for the next guy . I keep trying to make sense of some of these rules and descriptions, and honestly that one got me . I did not start at the top of the list , I tried to use the attribution guides for medium O shifted left and some other quick links and got nowhere . When I found 2B2 after some struggling I figured I had it but that VAM has a more centered MM to my eye anyway and I almost gave up ...Then after 2 Days of struggling , I took at less obvious {than The attribution Guide anyway} and found the Hamilton coin easily . I will tag at @RogerB because he keeps talking about some tool for newcomers that needs to be built ...