legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Forum rules
All posts to this forum must abide by the posting rules. Continued posting to any VAMWorld forum constitutes acceptance of the rules.
User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:00 am

Could someone please explain the VAM 2 Hamilton page for the 1880-O on VW >> There is a description for MM normal height and centered with 2 different LFCP one clearly has the MM shifted left but the other has it centered I think anyway . There is talk of 4 die pairings discovered originally , but one of them has been de listed I think ... I Just need some clarification about the one LFCP with the die cracks in the date and the MM on the reverse shifted to the left ..... thank you in advance :popcorn:
QS22MAN0R.JPG
QS22MAN0R.JPG (183.65 KiB) Viewed 423 times
if this is centered and upright i will apologize in advance. i just don't want to be the boards science project so i tried to figure this out and failed I guess
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:34 am

I'm just looking for the twin displayed in the LFCP on that page and don't see how the above pictured MM could be centered and upright, it got hit pretty hard but not enough to move it .
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:44 am

pretty sure this coin is the exact same obverse as the LFCP listed as VAM 2 Hamilton on that page , and Im confused I guess
QS22N38JM.JPG
QS22N38JM.JPG (160.87 KiB) Viewed 417 times
QS22N0EZV.JPG
QS22N0EZV.JPG (198.62 KiB) Viewed 416 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:08 am

I even went as far as matching the PUPS listed for Vam 2B2 on the obverse , but failed to find that VAM paired with a shifted left MM...I could not diffidently see any clashed letter transfer on either side but that does not mean anything ... I'm not looking for anything new BTW just hunting a number ,
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:18 am

Might as well put the rest of the pictures up so I can delete the testing ones . I sorry I suck at this so bad ,,,,
QS22N16LC.JPG
QS22N16LC.JPG (230.28 KiB) Viewed 407 times
QS22MBQNW.JPG
QS22MBQNW.JPG (214.21 KiB) Viewed 407 times
QS22MDOPR.JPG
QS22MDOPR.JPG (262.58 KiB) Viewed 407 times
QS22MDKW2.JPG
QS22MDKW2.JPG (235.57 KiB) Viewed 407 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:25 am

QS22MASFU.JPG
QS22MASFU.JPG (243.55 KiB) Viewed 404 times
QS22MAQJZ.JPG
QS22MAQJZ.JPG (242.08 KiB) Viewed 404 times
QS22MCPKG.JPG
QS22MCPKG.JPG (268.18 KiB) Viewed 404 times
QS22MCXJK.JPG
QS22MCXJK.JPG (272.43 KiB) Viewed 404 times
QS22N1XWJ.JPG
QS22N1XWJ.JPG (169.36 KiB) Viewed 404 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:50 am

The good news is the other 1880-O I had only took me 10 min after trying to figure this out on my own , and i finally figured out how to take a better pictures , see attached
QS22O92L4.JPG
QS22O92L4.JPG (200.13 KiB) Viewed 398 times
QS22O91TE.JPG
QS22O91TE.JPG (200.59 KiB) Viewed 398 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

MarkyB
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by MarkyB » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:05 am

Delete: I was looking at the wrong (1888-O) listing.
Last edited by MarkyB on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:23 am

I think i matched it to that LFCP ,, it just technically wrong as far as v2 descriptions go { still guessing here} ... i tried to guess using obverse and reverse die numbers but have no idea if this guess is even in the same area code :lol:

not sure you can do it like this at all , and its probably wrong but i tried

Obverse III21
Reverse C3m
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:03 am

If I'm wrong about the MM placement on this coin please tell me cause i spent two days tying to match it and failed comparing pictures vs VW ,, I might not be cut out for this gig , I did not even want to bring it up , just could not match it up .
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

Mhomei
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by Mhomei » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:06 pm

Mr Hamilton was working on listings, he submitted
The topic coin to LVA, 2014?? It came back as a V2
That same year I submitted the Hill pair.
Also came back as V2.

For the sake of clarity it we asked LVA and he suggested using last names to document the different pairings but still V2 class

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:24 pm

Thank you very much for the reply , this coin hung me up because I was using the attribution guides with the coin in hand . I'll bet I read the description at least a dozen times about MM centered and upright and just dismissed it . I am so new to this I question everything in trying to attribute my stuff .I will write V2 Hamilton on my spread sheet if that is how this is done . It just looked to me like both Mr. Hamilton's coin and my coin had a different reverse than what is listed for V2 . some of this is way above my pay grade .
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
ljs123
Posts: 1802
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by ljs123 » Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:50 pm

@UNCLE BINGO
Another tip is to remember that low number VAMs were likely discovered in the early days. Meaning that the date and mm designation may be different than the way we might list them today. If you are at this long enough, you will find dates and mm that you wonder why they are listed in a certain way. You might want to call it a far date but it was listed as normal, etc. That is why we should all post photos here and ask questions like you did. That way we can sort this type of thing out and be as consistent as possible in the listings.
Today some of us use a computer to draw lines from the denticles for date placement or under the bows for mm placement.
Was that how things were done in the early days?
I remember a day when we didn't have computers.

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:07 pm

Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .
Attachments
QS22MAN0R.JPG
QS22MAN0R.JPG (181.12 KiB) Viewed 346 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

Geseas
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:49 am
Location: West Michigan

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by Geseas » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:03 pm

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:07 pm
Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .
Dear Bob,

I am enjoying your insights... but; You have asked about 3 questions in this one thread... and I am going to attempt to answer them all. :roll:

' An example may be in order here: I have edited this post. I would have been able to delete this post all together but a post was made after mine by Mhomei ( an on topic comment)... It took me a long time to realize this. You may have already known about this 'editing feature.' Can be most useful if used with some compassion.[/sizThanks for sharing everyone. Don't be shy about pushing those buttons :)
Last edited by Geseas on Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:00 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Mhomei
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:23 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by Mhomei » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:18 pm

Yours is the same reverse as the Hamilton Die

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:28 pm

Thank you for the reply I'm not arguing at all . The description on the VW page and my own misinterpretation was what led to the confusion . i never looked at the pictures for v2 cause I just didn't understand what variables can exist in the words Centered and upright , I hope that makes sense.
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:58 pm

Geseas wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:03 pm
UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:07 pm
Not sure what will happen if you draw lines on this one .. It flat out got me .
Dear Bob,

I am enjoying your insights... but; You have asked about 3 questions in this one thread... and I am going to attempt to answer them all. :roll:

' An example may be in order here: I have edited this post. I would have been able to delete this post all together but a post was made after mine by Mhomei ( an on topic comment)... It took me a long time to realize this. You may have already known about this 'editing feature.' Can be most useful if used with some compassion.[/sizThanks for sharing everyone. Don't be shy about pushing those buttons :)


I don't need to edit anything , you will just have to endure misspelled words, things like "your" instead of "you're" and a total lack of punctuation from me . Its a bad habit and I use to get teased about it a little ... I do need to amend the first post and say that both the Hamilton and Hill specimen pictured on the plate photos both have the MM slightly to the left of center for my untrained eye, that's just my opinion . I want to go home and break out the big book and see what the original V2 MM looks like if it is pictured , just to get a better idea for my own sanity what the words centered and upright meant.... everyone on here has said that VAMS are descriptive in nature and I'm not arguing at all , just trying to figure it out for myself is all ...
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

Geseas
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:49 am
Location: West Michigan

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by Geseas » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:06 pm

Thank you for setting me straight. @UNCLE BINGO I apologize for my assumption.

I do not even own the big book, yet.

Onward,

This photo is of the two Reverses you are comparing? ( I hope I have it right.)

1880-O campare.jpg
1880-O campare.jpg (113.72 KiB) Viewed 280 times
(I will fill in above photo discription *here*)

(Better photos of the above.) *Discription now added.
1880-O_RonH_VAM-2_REV_04282012a.jpg
1880-O_RonH_VAM-2_REV_04282012a.jpg (227.68 KiB) Viewed 241 times
1880-O-V2-LVA-MHI-REV-1040.jpeg
1880-O-V2-LVA-MHI-REV-1040.jpeg (291.34 KiB) Viewed 241 times
Last edited by Geseas on Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: legitamate question about VW 1880-O Vam 2 page

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Jan 23, 2023 10:34 pm

Were all good , The only fault I am calling out is my own . I would have picked up coin was VAM 2 if there was even a note on the page suggesting that the MM is not what one might think center is ( mainly for the newcomer} , I'm only sharing this experience for the next guy . I keep trying to make sense of some of these rules and descriptions, and honestly that one got me . I did not start at the top of the list , I tried to use the attribution guides for medium O shifted left and some other quick links and got nowhere . When I found 2B2 after some struggling I figured I had it but that VAM has a more centered MM to my eye anyway and I almost gave up ...Then after 2 Days of struggling , I took at less obvious {than The attribution Guide anyway} and found the Hamilton coin easily . I will tag at @RogerB because he keeps talking about some tool for newcomers that needs to be built ...
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

Post Reply