Interesting 1879-P

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:27 am

This coin got me looking at all of my Morgans and getting back to errors and varieties altogether. I have been away from collecting for a while.

I noticed several cracks and what I first thought was a die chip but realized that it looked to be molten or softened metal squeezed out in between the I and B in the Liberty legend.

It also looks like In God We Trust (IGWT) is doubled. I would like some thoughts on this.

Tekkie1 · Post by **Tekkie1** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:57 am

I know you can see it the best since you have the coin in hand but from where I'm sitting, the crack sure does look like a stain on the coin making appear as such. It's just my opinion.

Mike7E · Post by **Mike7E** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:29 pm

Discoloration appears to be a stain. The thin lines are die polishing marks that are seen in many Morgans.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:48 pm

Characteristics of polishing differ from these. At first glance, I thought I saw clashing (between Epluribus and Unum, but upon closer examination I am seeing cracking. The stains may be a result of environmental exposure to the internal structure of the alloy. The thin lines that I am looking at are irregular and aligned with the lattice structure of the metal.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:50 pm

I thought I'd share some more slides.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:51 pm

Some more detail of what I am seeing on this coin.

...kenny · Post by **...kenny** » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:43 pm

just spit balling, could it be a de-lamination issue? planchet?

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:05 am

...kenny wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:43 pm
just spit balling, could it be a de-lamination issue? planchet?

who knows... possible theory... spit has acidic properties

I do some research on delamination. Thanks.

impairedsquirrel · Post by **impairedsquirrel** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:27 am

I'm gonna call it all "on", not "in"...

keilg1 · Post by **keilg1** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:52 am

Sorry to say the pictures are not clear enough to make any definitive statements to me. The only thing I can see is significant damage across all areas - the wavy forms are damage from the reeded edges of other coins smashing into it, there are pronounced scratches (and long ones, at that) - in front of the ear and from the eye downwards - and more abrasions than normal for what appears to have a nice shine and/or frosty look (at least in some of the pictures).

Hope you can grab some better pictures to help us help you.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:34 am

Thanks.

I know that the wavy lines are bag marks. I labeled them for reference. I guess that I just need to remove those labels as they only confuse the conversation. I do question the long surface abrasion. It appears to have some indication of a crack at the apex of the longer abrasion run, one of three twisted lines traveling outward as spokes in a (broken) wheel, this was what caused me to become curious about the feature.

There are much more than a few bag marks on this coin that makes it interesting.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:35 am

impairedsquirrel wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:27 am
I'm gonna call it all "on", not "in"...

Not sure what that means.

vampicker · Post by **vampicker** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:59 pm

79 Phillies are tough. There are a number of minor varieties that are very similar. Without a few die markers, you're going to stay stuck. Look for fine lines inside the letters of LIBERTY, and under or between the cotton blossoms. Moving down into the lower hair, there are a couple of places that can have good markers. There are some hanging curls behind the junction of the neck and chin and there's a distinct D shaped void to the right. If there are lines inside of this, try to get a picture. Also, in the hair above the final digit, there's a big cluster of curls with gaps around the 3 upper sides. The top of this resembles a bear claw. If you see any lines in this area, that's also worth trying to get a picture. This might be enough to ID the obverse and that's a solid start.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:11 pm

Did my best using cell phone camera and tired eyes

Photos at 10X

: Legend.jpg (112.71 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

: Bear Law.jpg (97.35 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

: letter D.jpg (114.06 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

: lines_2.jpg (122.73 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

: lines 3.jpg (136.43 KiB) Viewed 1200 times

vampicker · Post by **vampicker** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:51 pm

Take a look at VAM 33 Die 2. Not 100% certain, but the lines in LIBERTY appear to match.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:34 pm

ThankS!

I really appreciate your help.

Where can I find info and photos on VAM 33 Die 2? I have an older copy of Cherry Pickers and won't be able to afford the latest until next month.

hairfield1 · Post by **hairfield1** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:21 pm

Try here
http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 9-P_VAM-33

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:39 pm

Thank you!!! I have about 45 minutes just trying to find that on http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... /wiki/Home. I wasn't using the correct, or succinct keywords evidently...

Curious, What do you think it would be worth at AU58?

impairedsquirrel · Post by **impairedsquirrel** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:30 pm

MintyFresh wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:39 pm
Thank you!!! I have about 45 minutes just trying to find that on http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... /wiki/Home. I wasn't using the correct, or succinct keywords evidently...

Curious, What do you think it would be worth at AU58?

Numismedia lists 79P in AU58 at $54, so I'd say maybe expect around $40ish? Of course, if you advertise it as a VAM-33 Die2, you'll likely get more like $35...
Also, for future reference, any "value" questions should be asked over in the "Buy, Sell, Trade" forum.

MintyFresh · Post by **MintyFresh** » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:32 pm

Thank you.

VAMWorld 2.0

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