1921 Peace dollar for comment and suggestions

[RogerB]

Along the line of Malachi35's 1921 Peace dollar post, anyone want to try this one?

1921-die-clash.jpg (136.13 KiB) Viewed 375 times

[DarksideVAM]

I'll give it a try.

Untitledpeace.jpg (252.1 KiB) Viewed 365 times

[Malachi35]

Yours is cooler than mine I think

[RogerB]

Rotation between the dies adds to the impact by shifting the diagonal clash at the eagle's wing, to almost parallel to its throat. I've seen the same clash but with material behind the eagle partially effaced.

(This coin is from a Heritage auction -- it was too expensive for my wallet -- this was about 10 years ago.]

[DarksideVAM]

That's a great clash. I believe there's a photo of that exact coin on the VAM-1W page.

[RogerB]

Yes. The same coin. Here's the VAM 1W reverse photo:

Ha21-rev-clash.jpeg (170.15 KiB) Viewed 305 times

[RogerB]

The obvious question: The reverse clash is far more interesting than anything else on this die pair. Why is such a distinctive feature buried amid "unfindable" debris rather than at the top of the description?

No new collector is going to slog through piles of nondescript marks in hopes of finding this variety.

From the outside, the concept in this situation is backward. I'll not further pester the patient members on this.

[messydesk]

One of the things I encourage people to do is use the wiki's search function. I use it myself frequently when trying to attribute others' coins, because it can be a very fast way to find the right attribution, and speed matters when you're staring down a big box of coins. For the coin shown, and to Roger's point, I would search for "1921 peace clashed hair". As of about 10 minutes ago, 1921 VAM 1W is the first search result. This is because I added a comment to the page using keywords likely to be used when I search for it next time. Consistent language is key here. Catchy phrases like "hairy clasher" won't be helpful on their own.

Why is this comment not part of the official description? Probably because Leroy didn't see the unpolished coin and never added it. The first person to find the unpolished VAM 1W likely had to slog through the listings before realizing what they had. The comments section is meant for later observations like this that make searches easier.

[RogerB]

RE: "1921 peace clashed hair" good search point. But a new-to-varieties, wouldn't know this was about clashed hair, or in fact, anything much about the source of the marks.

If the 1W description began with "Rev. Strong clash marks near eagle's head" and then added the other bits the collector could easily identify the most prominent feature. The same could apply to other die varieties. (Clash remnants are used as primary identifiers in hundreds of other varieties. Why be inconsistent?)

Leroy and George did their best; seems like a good opportunity to correct and build on that.

[vampicker]

So I'll throw this out there as a comparison. What would you do with this coin? Does it actually warrant or even need a listing number?

[Malachi35]

Hmmm very cool clashed half dollar

[RogerB]

A very prominent half dollar clash and something a finder would want to know about. However, it's not analogous to the 1921s posted - there's no variety collection base for Kennedy halves. Also, it is not something that would be used to engage new dollar variety (or K-half) collectors.

[vampicker]

I daresay there are more Kennedy Half variety collectors than you're aware of. Plus the guys that work multiple series.
There are pieces very similar to this that have a number, and if I felt like it I probably could get this called a discovery piece.
But that's not the point. My question here is does this need a number to be collectible?

[RogerB]

1. Kennedy half collectors of a level consistent with VAM collectors are extremely rare -- possibly none.
2. "My question here is does this need a number to be collectible?" There are no die-level resources, so "cat" numbers don't matter.
3. There will always be those who can see forward to beneficial changes, and others who do not. How VAM variety collecting evolves - or goes extinct - it up to participants.

[I am merely an outsider who wishes you hobby well.]

[vampicker]

...blissfully unaware of the irony....