Trying to determine if this is an N clash

[ljs123]

@UNCLE BINGO

I will try to answer more questions.
And please, feel free to ask all the questions you like.
"Do clashes always transfer both front to back like what was suggested above in the correct position one would expect ?"
There are times that something doesn't look as you would expect. But those are the exceptions when you have spent lots of time studying clashes. The end of your question (the correct position one would expect) sort of points out the rule. In other words, when you hear hoof beats, think horses.
So, when someone asks an opinion when giving limited information, I go with the rule, not the exception. In the case of this coin, when given more requested information, it confirmed the rule, not the exception. The hopefully clashed n did not show the correct transfer that should show up. I hope my explanation makes sense.


"What if only one side shows a clash and the other die gets swapped out"
That has happened, that's why we ask to see photos of the other side.


"could something possibly wander around if another clash occurred with one side of a previous clash swapped out ????"
Yes. That is where patience, study, documentation, collecting samples come in to play to solve the mystery. Again, not the rule. I can think of examples, but that starts another long thread.


" I am just trying to figure this out really ...... Is this too many questions????? "
No, keep asking all the questions you like.


"I did here you say you thought the whatever on his coin was too high because of the neck line clash and i am not arguing at all . i just have to see it ( in real time) from any possible combo i guess to really grasp it"
I will try to help you understand what I am talking about by using a stronger clashed set of photos. The red and yellow lines should be the same length on both sides of the coin (both sides of the coin, not the photos). That is all I am going to say right now. Look at the photos and think about the length of the colored lines. Feel free to disagree with what I said. But then explain why I am wrong.

NESVT20090829_1880P_32A_1colorobverse.jpg (147.4 KiB) Viewed 194 times

NESVT20100808_1880P_32A_4colorreverse.jpg (213.62 KiB) Viewed 194 times

[UNCLE BINGO]

Heck man I'm not gonna say your wrong at all .Truth is from my little experiment to day with the 10 minutes i had to print transparencies out I would think you are 100 percent correct . No "N" would be where he was thinking based on your explanation . and he most likely will not get credit for any kind of letter transfer because it looks pretty light from what i could tell { what ever it is }. I just wondered if it ever happens that things get so out of alignment in the clashing and swapping and rotations and possible offset dies that @keilg1 mentioned ,That even an expected clash in the neck get off from its normal angle and position and maybe even a possible "I" instead of a N might show up?????like you said exception instead of the rule ???I'm not saying that is what it is at all , and i didn't get the wing and the" I" quite high enough up on the neck to really do any kind of overlay with his picture . I just wondered if stuff like this can happen?

Screenshot 2023-01-06 155825.jpg (71.6 KiB) Viewed 191 times

PS As i did this post its looks like his anomaly is too far to be a N and too close to be an I from the neck line {to me anyways , and probably too light to count if it was } NO offense to the OP ...........You have no idea how much you have taught me in one thread ... THANK YOU !

[UNCLE BINGO]

but i didn't use the correct date at all ..... i just don't have a true view picture of his same coin to be absolutely sure

[ljs123]

Now you see the problem with the rotation tools for clashed dies.
Your clash line coming off of the neck looks about correct, but from the reverse photos, your obverse neck should line up with the right foot of the reverse n.

[UNCLE BINGO]

I wonder if it gets any better to use the exact obverse and reverse of whatever you are trying to look at/ and overlay .... I'm going to play with the parlor trick some more just for fun ,. It is written there is nothing new under the sun somewhere ... I'm not trying to make some great discovery with VAMS or Morgan dollars . I was born too late for that . not really trying to make transparent paper stock rise ,,,,, I came here to learn how to do this .. Im gonna make mistakes and say stupid stuff and I am OK with that .

[keilg1]

I appreciate this post for so many reasons. Mostly, @ljs123 your explanations rock, they're educating all of us in our own way - and in very patient and kind ways.

If more of the world worked this way...

[Jodemyer]

I appreciate all of you on this post and all of the information and education being imparted! I was initially afraid to even ask about it being a possible clash but it kept nagging me! (Now I realize it is just some lil anomoly and I can continue to try and figure out the Vam or when I figure out how send it in ) I really was not trying to get credit for anything at all I just want to figure out the vam! I am so glad I did ask about it now because all of you are teaching us newbies so much and I really appreciate your time and effort!! You dont have to share your knowledge and experience, but you do! And I thank you all! Thanks UNCLEBINGO for asking more questions!

[Jodemyer]

Maybe this fits in on this post...Looking at the 1888p 12A (which is double clashed on the reverse)verses 24A which share the same reverse. The obverses are clashed in different locations. I am thinking maybe this is a clue which die was used first. There are no full coin pics of 24a (or 41a which became 24a) but I am guessing there is only one clash mark on the reverse above the wing on 24a/41. I wonder if its the one closer to center which would be the G clash? Correct me if I am wrong please I am trying to understand this. The 12a is N clashed and the 24a is G clashed. I can see that the higher the wing clash on the bust the farther to the left In God We Trust is?

[ljs123]

Maybe this fits in on this post...Looking at the 1888p 12A (which is double clashed on the reverse)verses 24A which share the same reverse. The obverses are clashed in different locations. I am thinking maybe this is a clue which die was used first. There are no full coin pics of 24a (or 41a which became 24a) but I am guessing there is only one clash mark on the reverse above the wing on 24a/41. I wonder if its the one closer to center which would be the G clash? Correct me if I am wrong please I am trying to understand this. The 12a is N clashed and the 24a is G clashed. I can see that the higher the wing clash on the bust the farther to the left In God We Trust is?

Yes, there is only one strong clash line on the reverse of the 24A. When you look at the 12A, the 24A clash line is to the right and goes up to the G in God. The obverse G clash isn't really that strong. The 24A is a very rare VAM. I only know of two. Mine and the DC. I believe that both are MS-64.
Mine will be coming up for sale soon. I will be posting several TOP POP clashed Morgans in the not too distant future.

[Jodemyer]

Thankyou @ljs123 I think I am understanding how the die pair order is figured out when used on different pairings and how the clashes are tied together. Thankyou for your knowledge!
Awesome! I will be looking forward to seeing it and the others! Where will it be? On the for sale section here or somewhere else? I have a couple 12a's I need to check my other 88's.

[ljs123]

I will be listing several TOP POP Morgans on the BST page here on VW.
Not exactly sure when. But not too long from now.
I’m having a hard time getting motivated to release my grip on some really good clashed Morgans.

[Jodemyer]

I can understand that! I love all the ones I have kind of like a separate family! I dont have anything spectacular but I am fond of them all. I will check them out I am sure out of my price range but I do love to look!

[demetri]

Half way between IB in PLURIBUS is 12:00 on the obverse. The knot on the wreath is 6:00 on the reverse.

Excellent information, appreciated always