New to VAM searching and may go crazy

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ken14405
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Location: Florida

New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ken14405 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:32 am

Hello everyone, thanks for the add. I've been collecting Morgans for several years and recently began looking at VAMS. The problem is I don't seem to understand all that's involved with identifying them. I have multiple coins with attributes to VAMS but as I drill into all the idiosyncrasies, nothing completely tells me a have a known VAM or which one I may have. Just one of multiple examples is this uncirculated 1902 O; it clearly has 2 Olives, a Doubled ear, doubling in E PLURIBUS UNUM, Doubled Tail Feathers, arrow knocks, profile, random die cracks, and the list goes on. I am literally making myself crazy. I have read most of the beginner's articles this site offers and quite honestly, I'm simply more confused by all of it. Can someone please help me understand, am I making this harder than it should be? Any assistance is greatly appreciated!
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1902 O Dbl Ear.JPG
1902 O Dbl Ear.JPG (217.56 KiB) Viewed 412 times
1902 O Dbl E PLUR.JPG
1902 O Dbl E PLUR.JPG (224.92 KiB) Viewed 412 times
1902 O 2 Olive Dbl TF.JPG
1902 O 2 Olive Dbl TF.JPG (229.2 KiB) Viewed 412 times
1902 O REV.JPG
1902 O REV.JPG (157.42 KiB) Viewed 412 times
1902 O OBV.JPG
1902 O OBV.JPG (154.85 KiB) Viewed 412 times

Jodemyer
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:49 am
Location: North Georgia Mountains

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by Jodemyer » Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:21 am

It is most definitely tedious but fun when you figure it out the vam! I have been learning this year and here is what I do. I go to google and type in lets say, 1902O vams.... or 1878s vams etc..which brings you to VAMWorld to the particular year and mintmark.....Then I find the attribution guides for the one I am looking at...Usually start with date or mintmark location ....find the group that has my coins location then start looking for clashes or die cracks that match up. I look at it like this ...Each die pair that struck a particular group of coins is like a model of car to me with different add-ons that appear as the dies age or clash or are doubled from the start....then just try to visually match up the cracks clashes etc....it takes forever sometime but I have gotten where I am recognizing the Vams I had to figure out. On your 1902 you may be able to download the crack guides and track it down....Sorry so long but hope it helps a little....for me its just alot of work but it is getting a little easier.

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UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 755
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:33 am

Welcome . i just go to the main page at vamworld click on the date , and use the cheat sheets , er mean attribution guide . After you find the date placement , and mintmark you can search from there . sometime easy , sometimes not . this is a good one to figure out just what reverse your coin has for that date http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... 3-C3_Comps
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

ken14405
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ken14405 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:18 am

Thanks so much for the insight! Based on what you provided, I can see I have the C4/C3 shoulder gap with 2 berries which is great but, where do I take this from here? I still don't know where to go to identify this VAM or if I even have one with this particular coin?

lured_in_again
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:20 am

Welcome to the site... a good place to start http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... bution_101 Most of the regulars will say to begin with the date position and mint mark position. Most of the listings by date/mm will have subheadings to sort by features. http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... Ms_by_Date

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LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:39 am

For the 1902-Os, there are crack finder links at the top of the page. But that is just a quick fix for someone starting. best to learn the basics as others have said.

ken14405
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ken14405 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:58 am

Beginning to see it, I went to the C4/C3 crack finder and found VAM 39. I have every attribute except for 2 die scratches by eagles left leg:
http://www.vamworld.com/wiki/File:Jcr-1 ... 091517.jpg
My coin shows everything except these scratches, so do I have a VAM 39 or not?
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20230104_215100.JPG
20230104_215100.JPG (194.86 KiB) Viewed 373 times

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LateDateMorganGuy
Posts: 937
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:11 am

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:10 am

I see the scratches. There is a saying, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

ken14405
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ken14405 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:13 am

Well then, guess I found my first Bonafide VAM! Thanks for the help!

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messydesk
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by messydesk » Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:08 am

I'll reinforce "learn the basics." Date position, date repunching, mint mark position, mint mark repunching, obverse and reverse hub types, where to look for actual doubling, how to not get fooled by machine doubling, notable vs. ignorable die clashes, cracks, and breaks. Some dates let you divide and conquer with hub types, like 02-O. Others have mint mark size differences that can help. 1878 has hub defects as well as design changes that affect all mints (all dies were made in Philadelphia). Rather than starting with "my coin has this and this and this and this and this again and this and this...," divide and conquer as much as possible, "my coin has a near date, C4/C3 reverse, mint mark set high." Even before you start matching pictures, you've eliminated a large number of VAMs to continue looking at. This isn't to say that it's always going to be easy, but you shouldn't make it harder than it already is to attribute something.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

DHalladay
Posts: 2989
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm
Location: Boise, ID area

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by DHalladay » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:36 pm

Very nice clear photos, by the way. That ability gives you a big leg up over many collectors in terms of being able to see what might not have been apparent at first, not to mention asking for and getting help from others.
When in doubt... don't.

ken14405
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Location: Florida

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ken14405 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:36 pm

Big thanks to everyone for all the insight! I'm beginning to understand how to use the unbelievable resources this site offers to determine what VAM's I might have. Now the real hunt begins and I'm certain I'll be bringing more questions to the group.
:D

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ljs123
Posts: 1812
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by ljs123 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:12 pm

Jodemyer wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:21 am
It is most definitely tedious but fun when you figure it out the vam! I have been learning this year and here is what I do. I go to google and type in lets say, 1902O vams.... or 1878s vams etc..which brings you to VAMWorld to the particular year and mintmark.....Then I find the attribution guides for the one I am looking at...Usually start with date or mintmark location ....find the group that has my coins location then start looking for clashes or die cracks that match up. I look at it like this ...Each die pair that struck a particular group of coins is like a model of car to me with different add-ons that appear as the dies age or clash or are doubled from the start....then just try to visually match up the cracks clashes etc....it takes forever sometime but I have gotten where I am recognizing the Vams I had to figure out. On your 1902 you may be able to download the crack guides and track it down....Sorry so long but hope it helps a little....for me its just alot of work but it is getting a little easier.


I have noticed several new people posting lately.
Fantastic! Hope more join in and post.
I thought that I would give a tip to others that join in and want to research a certain year and mm.
Instead of doing a Google search, I find it much easier to save the VAMworld homepage as a web favorite.
When you are at the homepage look to the left column and you will see "Morgan VAMs by Date" and "Peace VAMs by Date".
Click on the type of dollar you are interested in researching.
Then a page of dates and mint marks come up. Click on the date and mm that you are interested in and you have the list of VAMs.
I wish you all the best in your VAMming.


homePage.JPG
homePage.JPG (118.14 KiB) Viewed 305 times

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UNCLE BINGO
Posts: 755
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:41 pm

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:37 pm

If I can add to all the wonderful suggestions . There is a hyperlink to the main VAMWORLD page at the top of every page I believe in this forum . Shown here in yellow just click it .
Screenshot 2023-01-05 153238.jpg
Screenshot 2023-01-05 153238.jpg (104.64 KiB) Viewed 297 times
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

Jodemyer
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:49 am
Location: North Georgia Mountains

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by Jodemyer » Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:05 am

Those are good tips, I am trying to learn how to navigate around! Still cant find the Top 30 list Lol so prob not doing that well at it. I appreciate everyone here and all the help and especially all the Morgans people post! A great site here with great people and way more knowledge than I can ever take in but it sure is fun trying!

morganman
Posts: 1027
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:02 am

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by morganman » Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:11 am

Newbies must become familiar with the Vamworld2 website here and follow some of the
post dedicated to pictures and questions, and relax taking time for it to sink in
Most make vamming way to complicated- reviewing some simple date vams is a great
start learning the various pick up points PUP'S

Overthinking is a major issue when learning- Dont get hung up with real complicated
die states rather learn what a die crack, clashing, etc and where there placed on Morgan
or peace dollars mostly. Doubling is a simple common pup on common issues like 1880 s
1881 s 1882 s 1887 & many more

check & double check/3x-4x-5x check to verify what you think your seeing especially on
attributed common varieties, as spending timebecomming familiar is the best way to learn
and see PUPS

SLOW DOWN- READ- VERIFY AND ENJOY
:|

demetri
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:45 am

Re: New to VAM searching and may go crazy

Post by demetri » Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:05 pm

ken14405 wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 5:36 pm
Big thanks to everyone for all the insight! I'm beginning to understand how to use the unbelievable resources this site offers to determine what VAM's I might have. Now the real hunt begins and I'm certain I'll be bringing more questions to the group.
:D
I did the same thing when I first started a year ago, all the great info and helpful members make it that much BETTER. WELCOME, you now have the vam bug too. Lol

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