1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

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PacificWR
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1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:57 pm

For the last 25 years, since the 1889-P VAM-23A was first discovered there has been a missing link. One that nobody has ever found.... until now. I just finished verifying it. That missing link is the 1889-P VAM-23. It is the final missing puzzle piece. Detailed photos will be provided. This is big folks. It answers a lot of questions and provides additional facts into my ongoing study. There is no doubt anymore.
Last edited by PacificWR on Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

DHalladay
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by DHalladay » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:17 pm

Bravo Wayne!
I can't wait to see and read the details.
When in doubt... don't.

lured_in_again
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by lured_in_again » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:30 pm

One of the things most difficult to do.... find the original VAM of a series or the discovery coin. I'm still hunting the elusive 1891 o VAM 14 to try and close the VAM tree for my study. Looking forward to your photos....

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:06 pm

Detailed photos have now been uploaded to this post with more to come. I just want everyone to understand that this is not my coin. I just verified it. The credit belongs to VAMWorld member: andywoj00. andywoj00's photographic skills have been, and continue to be, a very valuable tool in proving the facts as they have developed in this study.

The 1889-P VAM-23 page will be updated soon. What a way to end 2022 and start a new year.

1889-P VAM-23 (Click image to view at higher resolution Then click on a region of interest.)
1889-P VAM-23 Obverse. 1889-P VAM-23 Reverse.

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1889-P VAM-23 Date. Note the full hair by the Designer's Initial's. 1889-P VAM-23 Polishing Line in E of "LIBERTY".

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1889-P VAM-23
1889-P VAM-23 Clean Un-Clashed Neck. 1889-P VAM-23 No Clash to N of "IN".
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]1889-P VAM-23
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1889-P VAM-23 Polishing Lines in Wing Neck gap and Left Wing. 1889-P VAM-23 Polishing Lines in Upper Tail Feathers.
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1889-P VAM-23 Polishing Lines in Eagle's Right Wing. 1889-P VAM-23 Polishing Lines in Bow.
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]1889-P VAM-23
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1889-P VAM-23 M in UNUM. 1889-P VAM-23 Un-clashed N in "IN" & G in "GOD".
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1889-P VAM-23 Un-Clashed Left Wreath. 1889-P VAM-23 Un-clashed Right Wreath.
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Last edited by PacificWR on Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:14 am

DHalladay wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:17 pm
Bravo Wayne!
I can't wait to see and read the details.
Thanks Dennis. Since the first of November the facts of just come pouring in and there is more to come.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:16 am

lured_in_again wrote:
Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:30 pm
One of the things most difficult to do.... find the original VAM of a series or the discovery coin. I'm still hunting the elusive 1891 o VAM 14 to try and close the VAM tree for my study. Looking forward to your photos....
Thanks. It took 25 long years to find one (andywoj00 coin). Keep up the hunt.

morganman
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by morganman » Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:32 am

Does any of all this make any difference of value of 23A ??, or change value on 23
very curious !!!!!!!!
:|

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:31 am

morganman wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:32 am
Does any of all this make any difference of value of 23A ??, or change value on 23
very curious !!!!!!!!
Ya know that answer is really dependent on a few things IMO. the more exposure this particular VAM gets , and still holds at 7 or 8 known examples . , IF that circumstance becomes well known beyond this FORUM and its members , then naturally the price would most likely rise. I saw a penny today on GC I want to say it was one of 3 known examples and I think it was a 1958 DDO . The Price tag was above a quarter million dollars . EVERY THING we collect is grade based with a rarity kicker . BUT there are a few VAMS on my imaginary top 20 that I am relatively sure not many folks beyond this member ship even know exist. I personally want a 1882 cc vam7 and a high grade 1884-S 11A in a higher grade , why ?????? because these two past vams of the year have a 0 pop on the SSDC Reqistery so I suspect they have a rarity factor that is similar to the 23A ,,,,,, the problem is most of the rest of the coin collecting community have no earthy idea what those two VAM numbers are, even worse they don't care to look ....... WE NEED TO FIX THAT ..... If you build it they will come :lol:
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

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SilverToken
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by SilverToken » Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:54 pm

Happy New Year and Congrats to Wayne and Andy! Great work with perseverance and evidence.

I guess all that's left to find on the V23 series will be a stage 6? Gotta keep you busy!
When it's no longer fun, I think I'm done!

rodmeader
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by rodmeader » Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:03 pm

Congratulations on a job well done, Wayne. Great work!

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:15 pm

Wayne I love that its a 23 for 2023 !
PS... That was good :popcorn:
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:26 pm

SilverToken wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:54 pm
Happy New Year and Congrats to Wayne and Andy! Great work with perseverance and evidence.

I guess all that's left to find on the V23 series will be a stage 6? Gotta keep you busy!
Just think for a second Mark... it took 25 (VAM-23A) years and 22 (VAM-23B) years to get to this point and then everything changed, in the last two months. We now have a confirmed 1889-P VAM-23 and we now have proof of the 1889-P VAM-23A Clashed Reverse (4 clashes) and you were part of it. What way to end 2022 and start 2023.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:27 pm

rodmeader wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 3:03 pm
Congratulations on a job well done, Wayne. Great work!
Thanks Rod. I so do appreciate it.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Sun Jan 01, 2023 9:28 pm

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2023 5:15 pm
Wayne I love that its a 23 for 2023 !
PS... That was good :popcorn:
I love it! Never thought of it that way. You nailed it.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:05 pm

Received my second 1889-P VAM-23 today, so that brings the total confirmed VAM-23"s to three. In addition, the 1889-P VAM-23 page has been updated with detailed photos.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:44 pm

The significance of finding the first three confirmed 1889-P VAM-23’s provides a factual basis that renders any 1889-P VAM-23, VAM-23A and VAM23B with a reference to the former 1889-P VAM-5G inaccurate. As the discoverer of the 1889-P VAM-5G, I never did buy into the official Reverse description that VAM-5G was an earlier die state than the VAM-23, VAM-23A and VAM-23B and labeled it an X-factor coin (1 of 2). It is true, that the former VAM-5G shares the same Reverse as the VAM-23, VAM-23A, VAM-23B, but it is not an earlier die state. How do we know this. This one is simple, just turn both coins over to the Reverse and you will notice on the former VAM-5G that there is a clash to N of “IN”. This is the same clash that occurred on the 1889-P VAM-23A and is also on the 1889-P VAM-23B and part of the VAM-7 Series. The VAM-23 does not have a clash to N of "IN".

Finally, the confirmation of the first three 1889-P VAM-23's establishes the proper starting point (not VAM-23A) for a die study. This is where the mintage began for the VAM-23 Series.

shortnock
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by shortnock » Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:43 am

WRP. Have sent you pm and email. shortnock.
Refrain from computing the total number of poultry... before the process of incubation has fully materialized.

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PacificWR
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by PacificWR » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:30 am

shortnock wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:43 am
WRP. Have sent you pm and email. shortnock.
Sent a response.

morganman
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Re: 1889-P VAM-23 Missing Link has been found

Post by morganman » Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:44 am

Should/does this all reflect any changes to 23A Value ??????????????
Sure as H hope not- as a few here would really take a beating !!!!!!!!!
:|

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