NGCX

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Eschaton
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NGCX

Post by Eschaton » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:26 pm

Interested in hearing thoughts from professionals and collectors alike.

DHalladay
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Re: NGCX

Post by DHalladay » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:01 am

I have no idea what you are asking about.
When in doubt... don't.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:12 am

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messydesk
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Re: NGCX

Post by messydesk » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:28 am

NGC's new 100 point grading scale (10 plus one decimal place) that supplements the 70 point scale and will be used on moderns at first. It's an attempt to make graded coins approachable by those that grade other collectibles graded on a scale of 1-10. To me, it's an attempt to get more grading fees, but then that's their business.

It doesn't take much imagination to map the new scale to the existing 70-point scale, although there is actually one grade fewer in the new scale in the circulated category. This is disregarding pluses, of course.

Mint State/Uncirculated

10 = a pristine coin with no post-production imperfections visible at 5x magnification.
9.9 = a fully struck coin with nearly imperceptible imperfections.
9.8 = a very sharply struck coin with only miniscule imperfection
9.7 = a sharply struck coin with only a few imperfections.
9.6 = a very well struck coin with negligible marks and hairlines
9.5 = a very well struck coin with minimal marks or hairlines
9.4 = a well struck coin with moderate marks or hairlines
9.3 = a coin with a good strike, but several obvious marks or hairlines and other miniscule imperfections
9.2 = a coin with a slightly weak or average strike that has moderate abrasions and hairlines of varying sizes
9.1 = a coin with a slightly weak or average strike that has no trace of wear, but more or larger abrasions.
9.0 = a coin with an average strike and no trace of wear, but more marks and/or multiple large abrasions.

Circulated

8.8 = a coin showing slight wear on the highest points of the design. Full details visible.
8.5 = a coin showing slight wear on less than 50% of the design. Full details visible.
8.3 = a coin showing slight wear on more than 50% of the design. Full details except for very minor softness on the high points.
8.0 = a coin showing slight wear on more than 50% of the design. Full details except for minor softness on the high points.
7.5 = a coin with complete details, but minor wear on some of the high points.
7.0 = a coin with complete details, but minor wear on most of the high points.
6.5 = a coin with complete details, but wear on all of the high points.
6.0 = a coin with nearly complete details, but moderate softness on the design areas.
5.5 = a coin with nearly complete details, but more softness on the design areas.
5.0 = a coin with moderate design detail, but letters and digits are sharp
4.5 = the recessed areas on this coin show slight softness, but letters and digits are sharp.
4.0 = the recessed areas on this coin show more softness, but letters and digits are sharp.
3.5 = this coin has wear throughout the design, and letters and digits show softness.
3.0 = this coin has wear throughout the design, and letters and digits show more softness.
2.5 = the peripheral letters and digits on this coin are full, and rims are sharp.
2.0 = the peripheral letters and digits on this coin are nearly full, and rims exhibit wear.
1.5 = most letters and digits on this coin are readable, but rims are worn into the fields.
1.0 = there will be just enough detail to identify the coin's date and type. The rims will be flat or nearly flat.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:36 am

looks a little bit like panic from the marketing and advertising department to me . :o :lol:
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DHalladay
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Re: NGCX

Post by DHalladay » Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:43 am

Oh Lord...

Just what we need, another 'improvement' of highly questionable need built around microscopic hair-splitting that will inevitably lead to collector unhappiness about perceived inconsistent application. Frankly, I can't help but think is entirely being driven by the prospect of resubmission grading income.

AND... I can't wait to see the mess this will create with the Greysheet & other pricing guides, and whether CAC will accept NGC coins with this silliness.
Last edited by DHalladay on Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:17 am

“What starts out here {In America} as a mass movement ends up as a racket, a cult, or a corporation.”
— Eric Hoffer :popcorn:
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:58 am

@messydesk So they are just going to try it out with moderns? Does this mean the small stack of NGC Millennial sets graded by them previously and even the very small small stacks of 1999 silver eagle all MS 69 might get a new number of 9.9 for some TBD fee ? Who writes this stuff PT Barnum :lol:
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lured_in_again
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Re: NGCX

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:18 am

I had to read the description of 8.3 vs. 8.0 a couple times.... very minor vs. minor ???? Really?? Sounds almost impossible to break that down.

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messydesk
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Re: NGCX

Post by messydesk » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:48 am

lured_in_again wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:18 am
I had to read the description of 8.3 vs. 8.0 a couple times.... very minor vs. minor ???? Really?? Sounds almost impossible to break that down.
How about the differences between AU50 and AU53? That's what those are.
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lured_in_again
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Re: NGCX

Post by lured_in_again » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:25 am

I'll check out my latest order back from ANACS. It has a couple of each graded 50 and 53. Maybe I can learn from those examples. My previous 4 orders had only 50, 55, and 58 in the AU grades, none in 53. thanks

demetri
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Re: NGCX

Post by demetri » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:44 pm

IMHO They use this grading scale for comics (cards too) and I think it works good, although just as subjective. I think in this case a coin with heavy bag marks but is actually uncirculated graded an AU (because of marks) would fair better (9.0) BUT to change a grade scale after millions of coins are already graded would be a disaster for collectors. IMHO

RogerB
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Re: NGCX

Post by RogerB » Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:49 pm

Will they also grade dead earthworms on my driveway?

A confused mixture of opinions, assumptions and unsupported measurements. This tango goes backward so many steps I've lost count.

Eschaton
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Re: NGCX

Post by Eschaton » Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:26 pm

Here would be the wildcard: if CAC launched using the 10 point system.

It would generate a tremendous amount of money for resubmission‘s. That alone is enough to probably get other companies on board IF the public goes for it. There are only so many raw dollars left, and only so many raw high values coins left, eventually the name of the game is resubmission if we’re all going to be honest. Hence the creeping gradeflation.

There are pros and cons on both sides of the argument. There is no denying (if we’re going to be honest) that a 10 point system is far more intuitive. It’s also already the standard in collectibles outside of coins. There’s a lot to be said for that.

That said, the old saying “if it’s not broken don’t fix it” comes to mind. It’s going to frustrate a lot of people. Enough that they quit coins? highly unlikely unless they were already looking at the exit.

Like with the new 30 Super Carry caliber in the gun community, unless Glock adopts that caliber, it won’t work. Likewise, unless PCGS or CAC’s new grading service adopt the 10 point system, it won’t work. Time will tell. The amount of money it could generate will be tempting for all TPG’s. And wise dealers who find ways to game the system. And they will.

And at the end of the day, The reality is this: NGC is the official grading service of the ANA, and if the ANA says it’s the way to go, it will be hard to fight that.

I look at this is something that will be well received by the younger members of the coin community as well as new collector’s — both of whom also often dabble in sports cards, comics, etc.

So whether we like it or not, I think this is the future.

Assuming it isn’t the end of the world, and we’re not all fighting over the last can of radioactive tuna in a decade, I would imagine the eBay sellers would be saying things like “old holder”, “Sheldon undergrade”, “70 point easy upgrade”, and charging premiums for the old 70 point system coins.

So every cloud has its silver lining.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:18 am

Maybe and Maybe not . What if it turns out to be much like the Metric system , Most of the rest of the world was on it , It made much more scientific sense. The day was gonna come that the US was going to adopt it by law. Car manufactures started going away from standard nuts and bolts , 2 Liter bottles started showing up on shelves . etc ... Guess what The majority ruled and that plan dissolved. No offense to those who collect comics or cards or whatever . I guess we shall see
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Eschaton
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Re: NGCX

Post by Eschaton » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:31 am

Dissimilar comparison as that line of logic speaks to only one aspect of the equation, and not the part that matters most: money. That a new grading system will bring in untold profits in the name of reholdering and crossovers is not debatable, and I think at the end of the day that alone will be too much for the TPG‘s to resist. It also ignores the outsized influence that the ANA has on the industry, and the ANA’s partnership with NGC. Not to mention the possibility that CAC will start from day one with this 10 point system — would PCGS dare not adopt the cutting edge when faced with such a situation? The new leadership will follow the money, the new CU is a Wall Street / VC creature now, not a coin company. And let’s not forget heritage is guaranteed on board with this since they’re partial owner of NGC and the world’s largest coin company. This would not have happened unless heritage was on board.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: NGCX

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:45 am

You may be forgetting the most important thing in all of this , and in my opinion that would be the collectors. Although it does not seem like it so much nowadays as many have become merely plastics brokers . And some how the coins have become more valuable by labels and signature of some treasurer none
had ever heard of before they saw it on a TPG holder . What could possibly be more important than the coins themselves , and those who collect them.............
Biggest problem I can see is that the illusion has already become real . and it is about time someone called them out on some of this nonsense ,
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vamsterdam
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Re: NGCX

Post by vamsterdam » Mon Nov 21, 2022 9:42 pm

Ngc is already getting blasted on Facebook coin forums for the contiual incompetence in the (mis) attribution department. They continue to get worse, and the way they are treated those whose coins they either misattributed or denied that they were varieties at all is disgusting. I keep telling people to send their varieties to anacs.

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