Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

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MarkyB
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Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by MarkyB » Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:52 am

1923P. Reviewed most if not all listings and got zilch. Other than some obverse scratches and cracks and a faint shoulder clash, it's what stands out most about this coin. TIA
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ljs123
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by ljs123 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:12 am

I’m thinking that is a clash mark and not a gouge. But I think it may not take too long for one of the Peace dollar VAMmers to help out.

lured_in_again
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by lured_in_again » Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:14 am

Beat me to it - believe that is a clash mark as illustrated near the bottom of the page on Peace VAM attribution http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... bution_101

MarkyB
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by MarkyB » Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:37 am

Thanks gents. I see the clash is in an "ignore" area although I can't wrap my mind around why a clash in one area is a god VAM yet another can be ignored. One step at a time I guess....

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pup_picker
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by pup_picker » Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:25 am

MarkyB wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:37 am
Thanks gents. I see the clash is in an "ignore" area although I can't wrap my mind around why a clash in one area is a good VAM yet another can be ignored. One step at a time I guess....
think of it like this. primary pups (the diagnostics a vam is listed for) and secondary pups (usually not listable alone), used for confirmation, low grades, damaged etc. - at the end of the day it kinda boils down to less common and interesting clashing getting listed while some is just too boring and/or common based on the average opinion, not really much more. i pretty much agree with what is considered listable and what isn't and why. (also see ignorable "hub doubling" on some coinage vs die doubling) the hub doubling is actual doubling but deemed unacceptable as listable mostly due to SEVERE commonality because any dies made from a hub that is doubled is also doubled and thus every coin struck from those dies have that doubling. (whatever it may be) a lot of clashing falls into this category.

what boggles my mind is the inconsistency of clashed features when some are present and others are not. (this can apply to doubling as well)

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ljs123
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by ljs123 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:26 am

Good clash area vs bad clash area
Good clash area is an area that is a known or common area for a clash to show a listable feature.
Bad clash area is an area that isn’t known for or very uncommon area for a clash to show a listable feature.

This is a lot easier for me to point out on Morgans.
For example, lots of Morgans show clashes coming off of the neck and off of the eagle’s wing. But if there isn’t any letter transfer, the clash isn’t listable.

So going back to your coin, the clash that you show isn’t a listable feature. However, your coin did clash. So keep working on attributing the coin. Maybe the clash event did produce a listable feature that we have not seen yet.

Good luck.

MarkyB
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Re: Darkside-have you seen this gouge?

Post by MarkyB » Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:14 am

My wife says my military career stands in the way of my understanding things that aren't linear. I consider VAMing a visual concept and struggle when such things are presented as good, bad, secondary, etc but my eye says otherwise. Older dog; new hobby. Thanks again.

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