1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

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keilg1
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1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by keilg1 » Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:49 pm

The Peace series is not my cuppa, but when I have a coin in front of me my mind wonders (and wanders) what it might be.

Not as wild a year and mint as others, thankfully, but I still can't nail this one down.

Thought it might be a VAM-1K just based on the clash mark on the eagle's shoulder, but the aparent die cracks/breaks through and past the olive branch and above the O of DOLLAR suggest it might be a variant of a 1U (before the die was clearly filed down - looking like it might have clashed and they attempted to 'pretty it up') or a 1AG (before the cracks on the obverse began in earnest and, perhaps, before the second clash).

I dunno but I don't want to micro-vam this baby; just want an expert to tell me if it matches the IK, 1U or 1AG (or any other one).

Thanks in advance,

Gary

First, FCO and FCR:
1923-S Vunkn FCO GRed.jpg
1923-S Vunkn FCO GRed.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 377 times
1923-S Vunkn FCR GRed.jpg
1923-S Vunkn FCR GRed.jpg (256 KiB) Viewed 377 times

Next a few close ups of potential PUPs to help:
1923 S VAM 1K MS64 pic1.jpg
1923 S VAM 1K MS64 pic1.jpg (148.88 KiB) Viewed 377 times
1923 S VAM 1K MS64 pic2.jpg
1923 S VAM 1K MS64 pic2.jpg (127.67 KiB) Viewed 377 times

keilg1
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by keilg1 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:29 am

Oops, sorry I see now a couple of the pictures were duplicates. Apologies for any confusion but I hope there is enough info to help me solve this. Hate to bother you, @davidkclose, specifically but I'd appreciate the help.

Warmest regards from England!

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jrfaust
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by jrfaust » Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:06 pm

Gary, have a look at Vam's 1AN, 1AZ, 1EA, and 1FE, focus on the Front of hair that is over polished with beveled field and possible shortened rays. I'm not seeing any doubled clash spikes on Eagles shoulder, and all the other clash marks are common and not list-able. Are there substantial file lines on Obv or Rev? That may help narrow it down as well. :D :popcorn:

Nice pics!
Who is John Galt?

keilg1
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by keilg1 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:18 am

jrfaust wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:06 pm
Gary, have a look at Vam's 1AN, 1AZ, 1EA, and 1FE, focus on the Front of hair that is over polished with beveled field and possible shortened rays. I'm not seeing any doubled clash spikes on Eagles shoulder, and all the other clash marks are common and not list-able. Are there substantial file lines on Obv or Rev? That may help narrow it down as well. :D :popcorn:

Nice pics!
Rock on and thanks @jrfaust. My untrained eye didn't see the potential shortened front ray. It doesn't look shortened to me but I can see the resemblance.

No file lines anywhere I can see and, agree even with little experience, that clash spikes are common. Mine definitely has 1 or 2 sticking off the eagle's shoulder but I don't see any other major clash-related PUPs so would consider this/these minor.

The reverse looks like the 1AN - what could be a small die break coming off the olive leaves and into the ray field - but in some ways this looks also like the 1AZ picture but I think different and without file lines (again, to my untrained eyes).

Cracks. lines and other PUPs don't seem to match the obverses of the lot you mention - this coin is pretty much 'plain Jane' (no offense to Janes worldwide). Was hoping the small but unlistable crack on the cap through the rays might help ID this one but I don't see any others with a similar pattern.

I thought the potential breaks on the reverse could be planchet flaws because these are not uncommon, too, making it more fun to pin down an actual variety?

Thanks again for your help. I feel quoting someone near and dear to your heart is appropriate:
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not. His body is given to him, its sustenance is not. His mind is given to him, its content is not. To remain alive, he must act, and before he can act he must know the nature and purpose of his action...To remain alive, he must think.

As is true of all of life, there is an answer to be found. With help and proper drink it can be an enjoyable process.

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jrfaust
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by jrfaust » Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:24 pm

Finally someone who gets me!!! :lol: Love your quote at the bottom of your last post....so true and words to live by! :D ( so many nights I wish I had a pint or 2, 3, 4 of Stongarm or Trophy while looking through the VAM pages) HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE!

OK, I'm stumped :? but not to worry, there are some interesting marks on the coin that interest me. Can you get a better close up of the eagles shoulder with the spikes (2 spikes?) That changes the game if it does have double spikes. Also, the area between the olive leaves....is that a crack or gouge? The area above the O in DOLLAR and the ray above A in DOLLAR with the little half moon like thingy looks interesting (I've seen that before, not sure if it's a clash mark)If you could get close ups of those areas would be helpful. I've attached pics and circled the areas of interest.
Hopefully this isn't too micro-vamming, I love this stuff!
Maybe Dr. Close will chime in and give us some direction as well :D
Your new pal, Jody :D
1923-S Vunkn FCR GRed.jpg
1923-S Vunkn FCR GRed.jpg (232.67 KiB) Viewed 295 times
1923-S Keilg ob.jpg
1923-S Keilg ob.jpg (231.39 KiB) Viewed 295 times
Who is John Galt?

RogerRock
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by RogerRock » Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:27 pm

All of the marks circled on reverse are clash marks. Sometimes the clash at the eagle's shoulder is very closely doubled and difficult to photograph.

Recently posted a LDS 1923 S VAM 1AG with unlisted reverse radial die break from rim below C (PEACE) on June 30. Photos were posted on July 18 2022. The shoulder clash is very closely doubled
Stage 3 TERMINAL DIE STATE SILVER DOLLAR EXPLORER

davidkclose
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by davidkclose » Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:39 am

Try a die state of VAM 1DX or 1DY.

keilg1
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Re: 1923-S darkside (& hopefully a non-micro-VAMming) question

Post by keilg1 » Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:15 pm

Thanks so much for the help. It does look like a 1DX(1 at least, but not likely a 2) or 1DY, with many points corresponding to the reverse but detinitely lacking the obverse die cracks. Will try and get additional pictures if they can help others and be uploaded onto the correct page.

Appreciating the darkside fun a bit more now but will happily retreat to more familiar territory!

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