AU58 Paper Test

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messydesk
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AU58 Paper Test

Post by messydesk » Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:59 am

Not sure if I've ever shared this here before, but this is an effective test for telling the difference between AU58 and MS6x if you're not sure. I show this to students in the Morgan dollar class at the ANA when explaining what the difference between slight wear and luster looks like. I had occasion to post it on a Facebook group tonight, so I figured I'd share it here, too.

The white paper doesn't reflect well off the wear at the high points, leaving gray spots. You shouldn't see these on an uncirculated coin. If you do, put it back.

AU58
au58papertest.jpg
au58papertest.jpg (135.36 KiB) Viewed 1076 times
MS62
ms62papertest.jpg
ms62papertest.jpg (145.81 KiB) Viewed 1076 times
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 am

i like this lesson ,,, Thank you although there are a few dates I would gladly take the 58 LOL
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messydesk
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by messydesk » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:32 am

UNCLE BINGO wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:23 am
i like this lesson ,,, Thank you although there are a few dates I would gladly take the 58 LOL
Not if the holder or price tag said 62.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:49 am

I'm afraid after taking a quick look at the registry only Fogie has like a 89 CC in a 58 :popcorn:
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:24 am

I was just kidding LOL :lol:
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vamnuke
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by vamnuke » Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:18 pm

:o

morganman
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by morganman » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:16 pm

Nice; Now we need to send you to Anacs to help them figure where their going so wrong
with ultra conservative grading of PL & especially DMPL morgans, I will not send them
Mirrored Morgans, least i wish to take a screwing. Buying Anacs Morgans that clearly
have mirrors, breaking out and sending to PCGS has been a real eye opener as well
as money maker overall. Takes patience and good eye to do this.

Some would bring up subjectivity and i say my ass, Anacs went from slabbing non
mirrired morgans into PL/DMPL holders yrs ago (sm wht holders) to totally over critical
the last few yrs IMHO, but ive proven this many times the last 3 yrs +
Dont get me wrong i like Anacs better than other TPG services but they need a update
on policy. For yrs the trade knew many ANACS DMPL holders were not DMPL and it really
hurt Anacs reputation vs PCGS/NGC

My Anacs mirrored grading rant has ended LOL , but their the best Vam attrib TPG
due to JR. Hope the new CAC TPG can get accuracy & consistency
:|

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:10 pm

Image@messydesk It would appear at first glance I should have put it back . Now it looks as though I will have to take the white label off and downgrade. I didn't put the 62 on it , it was like that in the case when I bought it at the coin store . Thank you for another hard lesson learned . :roll:


EDIT I don't seem to be able to load the photo this morning ... must be those pesky trickster gods ,,,, Loki I think lol it seems to be something I am doing wrong ....

fixed it
20221021_163527.jpg
20221021_163527.jpg (29.01 KiB) Viewed 933 times
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iwillbenice
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:42 pm

Yeah right!

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:01 pm

Unfortunately I am dead serious. I have avioded putting any numbers of my own in it .The initial plan was to try and do an AU book . It has proven impossible on a budget. My only task now is to attempt to get the VAM # right . That is also a daunting task.
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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:53 pm

JB, how can you tell the difference between circulation rub and bag rub with this test?

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messydesk
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by messydesk » Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:53 am

Circulation rub is more random as far as how the micro-abrasions show up on the high points, wearing away the luster. Bag rub is more scuffy in nature and tends not to give these gray spots. That doesn't mean that a badly scuffed, yet lustrous, coin must be graded MS-something. I had a coin graded AU55 cross my desk recently that possibly would have passed the white paper test, but obviously should not have been given an MS grade. The main point of the test is to verify claims that a coin is mint state. It doesn't work for every coin (toning and copper don't play nice with the test), but it is quite effective in general.
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:07 pm

iwillbenice wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:42 pm
Yeah right!
K try as I might this 1903 does not do well IMHO under this paper test . My apologies for the cell phone pictures as I have not quite figured out how much to spend on a coin scope to better participate on VAMWORLD . I can see the grey spots right where the cover of the grading book claims wear shows first ... After pulling it out a getting a head on look I can also kinda see why my coin guy had a 62 on the slip . Please feel free to throw a number out just for fun , anyone wishing to give it a guess on grade and i will put that Majority # on the label. All of you are better qualified at guessing than myself . I have plenty of plastic ,most of it in ASE's .The truth is I have not found anything really earth shattering yet , in the Morgan's that at this point in time needs to remain or be put in a TPG holder .
Thank you all!
Bob
1903 paper test D minus.jpg
1903 paper test D minus.jpg (61.78 KiB) Viewed 839 times
1903 -P head on guess the grade.jpg
1903 -P head on guess the grade.jpg (167.48 KiB) Viewed 839 times
Reverse 1903-P head on guess the grade.jpg
Reverse 1903-P head on guess the grade.jpg (141.99 KiB) Viewed 839 times
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:46 pm

Coin at first glance appears to me anyway be VAM 4 , although that is just using the die markers on that attribution page, for the C4 reverse . wing gap , single berry , and the die marker scratches where the plates say they should be . some very light doubling here and there nothing very profound probably the MD kind that doesn't count . I am hoping the bottom of the 1 starting directly above the start of the third dentical qualifies as near date and not normal .. Please be kind I am not very good at this yet .. and Then I wonder about collar clash but I'm not sure I could even tell you what that is . :lol: I have not excluded VAM 1 yet either lol
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iwillbenice
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by iwillbenice » Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:02 pm

You are a grader with a white paper test?

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 pm

NO I suck at this ... just trying very hard to learn
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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:43 am

So here is the bottom line , one of the top graders/Instructors, in this country shared something with this forum that I did not know . This paper test . It just so happened I had a coin that I had traded for, before the lesson that qualifies as a great example of maybe something a guy should watch out for . I am just a poor dumb country kid that unfortunately is probably getting a little long in the tooth to be attending the grading thingy in Colorado springs . So I have no problem writing AU 58 on the label maker for a coin that I paid MS 62 for in the coin store, if that is what it really should be called . LESSON LEARNED ... its only like a 35 dollar spread on that year according to PCGS , My only goal in trying out something I have always loved {The Morgan dollars } is to try and fill my DANSCO book , I am puzzled why my very unorthodox approach to collecting MORGAN DOLLARS has not received much support . I really just want to learn some of the ins and outs of all of this . Trust me I still have a cleaned 1893 CC that still resides in its gold shield plastic prison , cause I am torn about putting that label In my book however that coin is worthy of another topic for another day ...... one day if I ever figure all this VAM stuff out maybe I shall wait in a long line at a coin show out west in hopes of getting`one of these Gentlemen to autograph said book ,,,, that would be something meaningful, far better than all the signed Mercanti garbage in my ASE collection
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Limitless
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by Limitless » Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:55 am

messydesk wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:59 am
Not sure if I've ever shared this here before, but this is an effective test for telling the difference between AU58 and MS6x if you're not sure. I show this to students in the Morgan dollar class at the ANA when explaining what the difference between slight wear and luster looks like. I had occasion to post it on a Facebook group tonight, so I figured I'd share it here, too.

The white paper doesn't reflect well off the wear at the high points, leaving gray spots. You shouldn't see these on an uncirculated coin. If you do, put it back.

AU58
au58papertest.jpg

MS62
ms62papertest.jpg
Hi Messy desk which Facebook group did you share this in? I'm in multiple and don't remember seeing it. Thank you

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messydesk
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by messydesk » Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:39 am

Limitless wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:55 am
messydesk wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:59 am
Not sure if I've ever shared this here before, but this is an effective test for telling the difference between AU58 and MS6x if you're not sure. I show this to students in the Morgan dollar class at the ANA when explaining what the difference between slight wear and luster looks like. I had occasion to post it on a Facebook group tonight, so I figured I'd share it here, too.

The white paper doesn't reflect well off the wear at the high points, leaving gray spots. You shouldn't see these on an uncirculated coin. If you do, put it back.

AU58
au58papertest.jpg

MS62
ms62papertest.jpg
Hi Messy desk which Facebook group did you share this in? I'm in multiple and don't remember seeing it. Thank you
Looks like it was a group called "Toned Morgan Dollars."
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demetri
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Re: AU58 Paper Test

Post by demetri » Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:28 pm

@messydesk you did post it here, i found it one day and used it ever since, thanks for all your efforts to help us new to vams, very appreciated

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