CAC is the next new grading company

[playtime1]

Big announcement today from John Albanese. He started both PCGS and NGC. This is big for the coin industry. CAC will be the next new kid on the block.

[messydesk]

for everyone.

[Eschaton]

Link? Thx

[messydesk]

Article + Interview

[morganman]

About darn time some reputable Numismatist decided to create a new TPG service
Hope Albanese doesnt mimic PCGS/NGC standards of operation/ or Political crap,
not t mention the terrible customer service. Grading fees will sure be interesting, but i bet
quite expensive. Interesting to see how Vams are dealt with, as PCGS not attrib many vams
has become a joke and further attests to their non commitment within industry

If this new CAC Grading Service does thinks pro active, it will quickly become #1 within
the industry. Maybe many of us will see our prayers answered with this new servcie, as
PCGS & NGC are the shits in many ways. If CAC becomes super in supporting attrib vams
then Anacs may take a hit, as their graded coins are already substancially worth less in mkt
In last few yrs Anacs ultra conservative grading policy has hurt the company IMHO, especially
Pl/DMPL morgans of which they are brutal conservative.

My bet will be to own some CAC stocks if/when they launch public offerings
Sure like to see NGC to lose their ass, as their totally INEPT-IMHO LOL

[Eschaton]

I would be exceedingly (but pleasantly) surprised if CAC did anything with non-list Vam‘s. And we somewhat have ourselves to blame. Years ago, when it mattered most, there existed a small but extremely vocal minority within the hobby that as purist collectors, did their darndest to eliminate any incentive to selling vams for profit, which kept most of the major players out of the hobby and tanked the values for all involved. We’ve made our own bed. Perhaps time and foresight could eventually reverse that, but such purist sentiment still lingers.

[morganman]

WOW- What timing as i have been hesitant to begin grading with PCGS idiots, in order to
validate and begin selling my huge collection thru Heritage. Now i will make a deal
with CAC to slab/grade thousands of my ungraded Morgans.

Very exciting, as PCGS didnt want to acknowledge my "The Oregon Collection",
Pedigree on slabs unless i kissed their ass in several ways, of which i refused and
held off doing business. So damm happy to know i have a great alternative that
also will hold coin value, as doing ANACS was unfortunately out of question, simply
due to final value discount their slabs bring in market.

This is a super huge deal for me, CAC TPG & Heritage, as the size of my ungraded
collection will shock the industry, as the PRIVATE PEDIGREE becomes known to the
industry. Excited to say least in Oregon

[Eschaton]

I watched the interview. Not at all convinced that CAC be as successful as a grading service as they have been as an acceptance service.

Unless they get some *serious* market traction, there’s no way on earth I’m sending CAC a coin that according to Albanese would get a 65 at PC or NG when he says he’ll 64 it in some cases (essentially his quote in the video). There would have to be some pretty significant shift in market sentiment to justify that kind of risk. Not taking that risk. That could change down the road, but I sure don’t want to be the guinea pig with my coins.

PC and NG are known quantities. I know what to expect. Down the road CAC could become the same thing, but until that happens I’ll stick with PC and NG.

[Eschaton]

WOW- What timing as i have been hesitant to begin grading with PCGS idiots, in order to
validate and begin selling my huge collection thru Heritage. Now i will make a deal
with CAC to slab/grade thousands of my ungraded Morgans.

Very exciting, as PCGS didnt want to acknowledge my "The Oregon Collection",
Pedigree on slabs unless i kissed their ass in several ways, of which i refused and
held off doing business. So damm happy to know i have a great alternative that
also will hold coin value, as doing ANACS was unfortunately out of question, simply
due to final value discount their slabs bring in market.

This is a super huge deal for me, CAC TPG & Heritage, as the size of my ungraded
collection will shock the industry, as the PRIVATE PEDIGREE becomes known to the
industry. Excited to say least in Oregon

Scott? Is that you? I don’t know how to private msg, just signed up today.

[messydesk]

...

Unless they get some *serious* market traction, there’s no way on earth I’m sending CAC a coin that according to Albanese would get a 65 at PC or NG when he says he’ll 64 it in some cases (essentially his quote in the video)....

This was one of my key takeaways as well. They're going to need a lot of coin in the marketplace for people to be comfortable with them being a go-to grading service, and a statement like that is going to scare away a lot of coins. Of course, low-end C or D coins in PCGS and NGC holders may be downgraded by PCGS and NGC, as well, but his statement came across as possibly meaning that if it wouldn't get a green sticker, it would downgrade. This seems contradictory to the original meaning of stickering or not stickering a coin. A "C" coin could be appropriately graded, but not nice for the grade and not something JA would want to buy, so no sticker. A "D" coin is an overgraded mistake that also wouldn't get a sticker and should at downgrade at all services. It could also have a problem that should have kept it out of a holder. CAC sometimes cites this problem with a red sticker on the coin when it's returned to the submitter.

As I said previously, help yourself to some .

[playtime1]

JB
You are an elite coin grader IMHO, I am NOT! I found it interesting that Mr. Albanese admits he needs a Monday
Refresher on grading to wipe away the grading brain fog. I like the intense training of the next up and coming graders. They only disagree on about 5-10 coins per 500 graded and re-examined. 98 % accuracy is a pretty good batting average for a subjective number. The bottom line to me is how much money should a collector pay or re- pay in grading fees.

JL

[colwillys]

This could be a new era of grading and an eye opener . JR is known for being the cruiser
could their be a monster being born . Watch out over graded coins here comes the dumpers
fire .

[iceman]

Well lets see if CAC has better luck with attributing VAMS , PCGS and NGC are not to good with attributes . ANACS is good with the attribute but Grading doesnt Hold up to the test . Need the Best Combo of these and Lets hope CAC can get it done . Just going to wait and see what happens before sending in some crossovers in the future . So I guess Hurry up and Wait . LOL , But still its a good possible option to have CAC able to do this . Fingers Crossed and maybe this will wake up PCGS and NGC to get thier stuff together . So I hope for a positive results for us .

John

[messydesk]

JB
You are an elite coin grader IMHO, I am NOT! I found it interesting that Mr. Albanese admits he needs a Monday
Refresher on grading to wipe away the grading brain fog.

Actually, this makes perfect sense to me (the Monday refresher bit, not the elite coin grader assessment ). It's no different than a musician running through some well-known etudes, scales, licks, and excerpts after some time off just to recalibrate where they are and make sure everything feels right. Same for athletes who warm up a bit differently after a break than during periods of daily training or competition. Having the self-awareness of knowing where you are and where you should be makes it much easier to fix small problems and re-establish consistency with your performance, no matter what the skill.

[messydesk]

Well lets see if CAC has better luck with attributing VAMS , PCGS and NGC are not to good with attributes . ANACS is good with the attribute but Grading doesnt Hold up to the test . Need the Best Combo of these and Lets hope CAC can get it done . Just going to wait and see what happens before sending in some crossovers in the future . So I guess Hurry up and Wait . LOL , But still its a good possible option to have CAC able to do this . Fingers Crossed and maybe this will wake up PCGS and NGC to get thier stuff together . So I hope for a positive results for us .

John

They might not want to do much of this at all. I imagine they'll start with Red Book varieties and figure out how best to tackle what there is demand for, but it's too early for them to tool up for detailed variety attribution right now.

[morganman]

My best bet is on John Albanese & New CAC TPG
Watch them employ super talent and superior customer service, lacking in the other
grading services. John A has been a success within the industry and for this reason i believe
sucess will continue except 10x.

Competition finally, will help industry in general, as the good ol boys get there ass kicked IMHO
I dont agree that it will take quite some time to get market share, as many of us have long
needed/wanted a better TPG service, super proactive and run by real committed pros
WALLA WALLA Here we go in 2023

Go fish PCGS & NGC Anacs better really step up their game to stay a player IMHO
Conservative is good to a point and bad if overdone, so i say
review and make changes or risk loss of business IMHO

CAC is already entrenched with super clout in industry so business
will grow leaps/bounds upon opening. Their comtemplating a soft
open=my ass/ they will be swamped and have trouble with turnaround
times. Watch their slabs begin receiving premiums over PCGS

PERSONALLY, I figure to be a large client as well as giving JB my attrib
business after CAC graded.

[RogerB]

More of the same and assures LESS coordination and standardization on objective grading. Things now revert to the pre-TPG except collectors will be paying $50 to $100 for what was once free.

Without accepted and uniformly applied standards, we might as well use a ouija board.

[Mediocrates007]

Subjectively, I’m annoyed. After 20+ years I'm leaving the Virginia Beach area, prior to the opening.

Objectively, I’m curious how they gain a market share. They are a trusted grade acceptance company whose stickers lead to added value in a lot of coins. But their process for acceptance is a closed-loop model currently and has been for years. This year they’ve throttled submissions for lower tiers due to demand. So I’m wondering how they intend to scale beyond their closed-loop model to reach demand. How long will they remain independent before reaching critical mass and selling off and becoming a subsidiary? When (if ever) will a CAC slab bring me the premium I see with a PCGS slab and a CAC sticker?

CAC, PQ, and Eagle Eye carved out their sticker niche and it works in my opinion. If I am to switch to CAC slabs from PCGS slabs as an example, value is probably going to outweigh company clout.

[morganman]

In retrospect, I made bold comments on using CAC TPG when available !!
I am also a realist business man, and will make grading decisions on
values of various slabs, buyer sentiment and fees etc

I am so excited about something new in grading circles that i probally got
ahesd of myself LOL As far as vam attrib by new CAC, they probally would
do well to hire a reputable consultant to do vams, as it would probally be the
best and enconomical way.

CAC has never been known for decent fee structures so this could present a
issue to most. I know other TPG services have and do negociate fees based
on minimum submittal size, so lets hope CAC will as well.

[keilg1]

More of the same and assures LESS coordination and standardization on objective grading. Things now revert to the pre-TPG except collectors will be paying $50 to $100 for what was once free.

Without accepted and uniformly applied standards, we might as well use a ouija board.

Amen. I'm frustrated by the subjectivity of the process (yet isn't collecting subjective anyway?), clear conflicts of interest ... well, no conflict of interest for them, the more they can make the illusion of the value of what they charge large sums of money for the better for them... and how it has taken a lot of fun out of the hobby. Statements that can be said of most things - sports, sex, politics, etc. - I suppose, but I'd love to return to a more simple life...