CAC is the next new grading company

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
morganman
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:02 am

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by morganman » Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:05 am

As numismatics/collecting etc is so subjective, in todays enviroment, all things considered,
especially my age, i prefer to put my money into super liquid assets, hence Bullion.
I am burned out by events that screw the poor coin owners in an attempt to make companies
rich. Making it worse is some denominations of coins being hard to liquidate. If it takes hard
work and time to sell, its probally the wrong place for much of ones money.

If things get as tough as many experts predict, having cash will be king, as well as having
hard assets that are easily liquidated. My bet stays with Bullion products that carry the least
mkt premiums over straight bullion prices. Us babyboomers have been wrong in our assessment
of economy & stocks etc, while the younger millinaels have made fortunes from paper assets
Shear age and in experience has seen them invest & prosper, even in over inflated values &
times. Simply put, their damm lucky the sky hasnt fallen in around them YET YET lol

Darn scary to see folks with families with large debit ie; Houses, cars, play toys, credit cards,
and more, as it is surely likely to crumble sooner than later IMHO
Many good families will be challenged or worse, if and when a lrge downturn occurs
Guess thats while we have bankrupsy courts for. Many Americans simply dont get it or
even have a clue whats going on underneath 31 trillion of National Debt.

Im a optimist, but this time feels very different, relative to past recessions etc, so it all puts
one on a total pessimistic view of challenges to come.
:|

RogerB
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by RogerB » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:36 pm

RE: "...but I'd love to return to a more simple life..."

The pre-TPG collecting era was not necessarily simpler, but there was much greater clarity and openness about grading and authentication/attribution. Permit a few words ---

A majority of dealers and collectors graded coins based on one of several published standards: ANA, Brown & Dunn, or Photograde. (I recall ANA being the most used.) If coin was advertised as EF and the standard was ANA, then the coin should look like the EF grade illustration, or better. This grade did not change because the coin had pretty, or ugly toning, or was proof-like, etc. - it was the coin's condition based on the technical specification. Everything else was subjective and collectors added or subtracted his/her personal "desirability" from the asking price (value) of each coin. Now, it is a tangled mess of opinions from anonymous persons sitting in darkened rooms making a "rigid pronouncement" about a mixture of slippery "standards" to which the buyer has no insight, and is supposed to meekly accept as if they were divine pronouncements.

Authentication is the singular TPG success over time, although they publicly display cartilage rather than backbone on the subject. New variety attribution is different. It was once built on open discussion and examination among multiple hobby specialists. These people agreed, disagreed, published letters and articles, and otherwise thrashed out the attribution in public. Eventually, a consensus was reached and the new variety accepted, rejected, or left in purgatory for want of information. Presently, and for almost the entire life-time of TPGs, new variety attribution has been a backroom activity with almost no public discussion and very limited expert review. Each TPG company has certain preferred experts and they rarely venture outside this comfy little cadre. The old process of wide discussion is lost, and on top of this TPGs now have the corporate hubris to assign fanciful, and unsupported titles to these backroom works. Coins come out of the broom closet with declarations of "Specimen," or "Prototype," or "Special Proof," and other undefined and unexplained attributions.

The old ways were not simpler, but they were self correcting over time. The TPGs don't self correct even if they recognize, internally to their company, that they were wrong. TPGs have linked themselves so tightly with money and market values, that if any were to admit mistakes and correct them, the value of promoted coins would crash. Lawyers would try to make honesty and responsibility into deficiencies to collect "damages" from such as TPG action.

colwillys
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:39 pm

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by colwillys » Wed Oct 19, 2022 2:56 pm

You will need guns bullets and beans .. Some barrels of cash plus gold and silver .

it is now communist joe or trader joe oh Trader Joe's is a store . :lol:

DHalladay
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Location: Boise, ID area

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by DHalladay » Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:55 pm

It will be fascinating to see how a CAC grading service is able to exist in a world in which the PCGS Registry program is a 600-lb. gorilla. I say that because it's extraordinarily unlikely that CAC coins will be accepted in PCGS Registry sets.
When in doubt... don't.

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messydesk
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by messydesk » Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:20 pm

DHalladay wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:55 pm
It will be fascinating to see how a CAC grading service is able to exist in a world in which the PCGS Registry program is a 600-lb. gorilla. I say that because it's extraordinarily unlikely that CAC coins will be accepted in PCGS Registry sets.
I just want them to fit nicely in PCGS boxes and be formatted so my sticker fits.

As for registries, I'm pretty sure CAC is starting a registry for their graded coins as well as stickered coins. Just a small step from creating a registry, competitive or otherwise, for all graded coins regardless of sticker status. You know, like the one we have.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

Eschaton
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:48 pm

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by Eschaton » Wed Oct 19, 2022 7:27 pm

What Dennis said. And will eBay bite?
PC and NG are so entrenched that the accepted grading standards that encompass the vast majority of the desirable coins will be hard to reshape. At best, it might stem or slow the ever flowing drift of gradeflation. Maybe. In the short term. In the long run, the temptation for gradeflation and the ensuing profits for all involved is too great for tpg’s to resist, history has shown.

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UNCLE BINGO
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by UNCLE BINGO » Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:00 am

keilg1 wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:28 am
RogerB wrote:
Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:36 pm
More of the same and assures LESS coordination and standardization on objective grading. Things now revert to the pre-TPG except collectors will be paying $50 to $100 for what was once free.

Without accepted and uniformly applied standards, we might as well use a ouija board.

:(
Amen. I'm frustrated by the subjectivity of the process (yet isn't collecting subjective anyway?), clear conflicts of interest ... well, no conflict of interest for them, the more they can make the illusion of the value of what they charge large sums of money for the better for them... and how it has taken a lot of fun out of the hobby. Statements that can be said of most things - sports, sex, politics, etc. - I suppose, but I'd love to return to a more simple life...
THANK YOU !
For minute there I thought I was the only one that thought it a house of cards .
Proud winner of Worst new Vammer of the year :lol:

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Kurt28
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by Kurt28 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:54 pm

"You will need guns bullets and beans .. Some barrels of cash plus gold and silver."

A small portion of one auction. They're all full. The beans don't photograph as well.
DSCN6889.JPG
DSCN6889.JPG (172.64 KiB) Viewed 316 times

colwillys
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by colwillys » Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:35 pm

SWEET ..

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DarksideVAM
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Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by DarksideVAM » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:08 am

It's apparent from the interview with JA that they are are targeting collectors that currently trust the CAC brand. With the new grading service, they will designate the coin at a level where it will be green bean worthy on the front side. Or put it in a details holder. Any coin without issues is a CAC coin at some level. I mean any PCGS MS-65 coin is a shoe in if it's graded at 63 to account for an anemic strike or bag marks.

I get a bean on about 2 of every 5 PCGS Peace Dollars I send them currently. I'm not sure how this change will impact their brand trust in the hobby going forward. I won't lose any sleep over it either way though.

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impairedsquirrel
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Location: Happy Valley, USA

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by impairedsquirrel » Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:15 pm

Oh, for Christ's sake!
That's it, that's all I got on this matter.
I go totally NUTS for WOW! VAMs!! Or is that from WOW! VAMs?

iwillbenice
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Location: Buffalo,New York

Re: CAC is the next new grading company

Post by iwillbenice » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:54 am

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT! :?:

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