Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

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messydesk
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Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

Post by messydesk » Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:37 pm

Has anyone come across this gouge on the first L of DOLLAR on a 21-S?
lgouge.jpg
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iwillbenice
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by iwillbenice » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:29 pm

No.

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by impairedsquirrel » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:13 pm

I know I never knew much, and forgot much of what I knew, but it looks like that feature travels through the L? Like maybe a planchet thingy of some sort?
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by iwillbenice » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:27 pm

The old planchet flaw?

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vampicker
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by vampicker » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:20 am

I'd want to see two examples to confirm that's a gouge. Gas bubble?
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...kenny
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by ...kenny » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:56 am

Is there a certain die paring your looking at?... :lol:
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by messydesk » Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:27 am

vampicker wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:20 am
I'd want to see two examples to confirm that's a gouge. Gas bubble?
OK. Here's another one.
lgouge2.jpg
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vampicker
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by vampicker » Sat Oct 15, 2022 1:29 am

Cool, it's confirmed as a die feature. And one I don't recognize.
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by impairedsquirrel » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:45 am

Struck through something stuck in the die? How would a gouge continue unabated through peaks and valleys?
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by messydesk » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:22 am

impairedsquirrel wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:45 am
Struck through something stuck in the die? How would a gouge continue unabated through peaks and valleys?
Something present when the die was hubbed.
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Eschaton
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by Eschaton » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:46 pm

In that case would that not be far more commonly encountered?

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by messydesk » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:46 am

Eschaton wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:46 pm
In that case would that not be far more commonly encountered?
Given how pronounced it is, you would assume so. I was expecting someone would find one while perusing their 21-S collection, but so far nobody has. This is one that you will really want to find (original thread renamed to reflect this).
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - You want this!

Post by Mhomei » Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:25 pm

I kind of remember photographing this,
If my memory serves me the variety was listed for polishing lines.

It's still baseball season so I will check later today
Mitch

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - You want this!

Post by vampicker » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:56 pm

Here's another example, and yeah - I'd love to find one. And I am cheating because John told me what it is
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21s mystery rev.jpg
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S

Post by pup_picker » Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:41 am

impairedsquirrel wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:45 am
How would a gouge continue unabated through peaks and valleys?
fwiw, there are TONS of vams with scratches/gouges/die polishing that goes across the field and devices, even some more than once and probably from more than one type of "tool."

they can be seen all over numismatics, especially 19th century stuff across many denoms.

various reasons too. pretty easy to put pressure and just have something go scraping across the die face. (i've had my hands/fingers do this while working on vehicles and such or using a knife and it goes on top of the staple and NOT under it NARROWLY escaping ruining a coin. ugh

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - You want this!

Post by messydesk » Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:11 pm

Here's why you want this one:

1921-S Zerbe special strike

The pictures I showed above were from the PCGS TrueViews. This seems to be as rare as the 78 Rev of 79 Proof, with 4-5 known. The marker on the L is strong enough where one would think it should have been noticed by now. I was speaking about it with David McCarthy the other day. He was wondering if that die pair had been identified as a business strike. I was figuring the only way would be the scribbling scratches, but lo and behold there's this easily seen gouge on the L. Quick search didn't turn it up, so this teaser thread seemed in order, so far producing the same results. We find it hard to believe these dies were used only to make some special coins for Farran Zerbe given the massive production of Morgan dollars that year.

Fortunately for the well-heeled that don't want to keep searching for one, Heritage has one in the FUN sale next January. I'm hoping to get a good look and document the diagnostics. I'll then add it to the VAM catalog before the auction ends, which will force @fogie to buy it. :lol:
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

Post by DHalladay » Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:34 pm

It never seems to take much encouragement to get Fogie to buy a silver dollar he doesn't already have! :lol:
(He does have a Zerbe already... but it's a lowly P.)

Zerbe gouge L.jpg
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

Post by fogie » Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:15 pm

Ya alls too damn cute....

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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

Post by vampicker » Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:38 pm

That's almost a 'well bless your heart'
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Re: Die Gouge on 21-S - Why you want this!

Post by messydesk » Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:25 pm

Well, maybe he and @Andy Hansen can compete for it.
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