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1878 7TF Minor Renumbering Complete

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:39 am
by messydesk
In the interest of getting rid of the "Die 1/Die 2" notation, a couple 78 7TFs have been renumbered.

VAM 140.1 is now VAM 140. The clashed die stage is still VAM 140A.
VAM 140.2 is now VAM 147, as it uses a different reverse die.

VAM 114.1 is now VAM 124, as it uses a different reverse die from VAM 114
VAM 114.2 is now VAM 114. The clashed die stage is still VAM 114A.

Other similar changes may be forthcoming where feasible and meaningful.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:15 am
by vamnuke
🤔

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:48 pm
by Mike7E
I agree! Using the same number for different die pairs since they have a common attribute, like "Low Date" is confusing at best for newcomers and sometimes frustrating for those that have been at this for years. It also doesn't help to determine population and often ignores some very interesting die conditions.
Thanks for the extra effort

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:07 pm
by dave700x
Great work JB! Any plans for VAM-45? :lol:

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:05 pm
by messydesk
dave700x wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:07 pm
Great work JB! Any plans for VAM-45? :lol:
If you're referring to 1902-O VAM 45, I'm inclined to leave that alone for the foreseeable future. The description of VAM 45 is rather non-descript, and in these cases it's probably best just to leave well enough alone (doesn't pass the meaningful test I mentioned earlier). Other cases that may be touchy are list coins that are recognized by PCGS and NGC -- 78 VAM 100 is the first the comes to mind. In my mind, 100.1 should become VAM 101, but I'd need buy-in from the list creators and the TPGs to make sure everyone's on board and it goes smoothly. The ugliness that is VAM 130C1 Die 1 and 2 doesn't need that level of coordination.

Regardless of the changes made, all VW pages with the old numbers will link refer to or immediately redirect to the pages with new numbers, and all pages with new numbers will refer to the former numbers. No old numbers will be reused to mean something new.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:56 pm
by shortnock
Thanks for the information and for the dedicated work of those responsible.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:30 pm
by vamnuke
…also, to me the plain V131 (proof only) and unrelated V131 die 1 never made sense with others denoted as A, B, C. Yes, 130 is a debacle, and I maintain the middle 130C2 does not exist; discovery is really a C3…

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:33 am
by dave700x
If you're referring to 1902-O VAM 45, I'm inclined to leave that alone for the foreseeable future.
That's the one. My head spins every time I scroll through this one...

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:10 pm
by mark
Will the registry be updated soon as well? Will the current 140.2s be automatically moved to 147 or will we need to go in and update?

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:59 am
by mark
147 has not been changed in the registry. @fogie @alefzero

VAM 140.2 is now VAM 147, as it uses a different reverse die.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:35 am
by fogie
The SSDC registry has been altered to reflect the changes made to the numbering.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:46 am
by messydesk
More 7TFs have been renumbered as of tonight, affecting the 130x and 131x listings.

130A, 130B, 130C1.1 and 130C1.2 are now 135, 136, 137, and 138.
130C3 is now 137A, as it is a later stage of 130C1.1
130C2 doesn't exist.
130 is an empty nest and the number will not be reused.

131 has been split into 131 for the business strike and 150 for the proof
131A, 131B, and 131C1 are now 127, 128, and 129
131C2 and 131C3 are now 129A and 129B.

I've expanded the old/new table on the 1878 page.

More to come involving 185, 186, and 210. That'll be the extent of the renumbering for 2022. The 2022 supplement will also contain the table mentioned above.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:57 am
by morganman
Great to see changes to make simplier and much less confusing
Glad we have professionals handling these complex issues
We all thank you all who contribute so much withot compensation, other than Thanks!!
Thats my story and im sticking to it. LOL

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:39 am
by messydesk
The last of the 1878 7TF renumbering has been completed. 185A, B, C, and 186A and B are now 180-184. 195A is 194. A table on the 1878 page contains a cross-reference for old and new numbers. That will be the end of the changes made for this year. I have my eyes on 1878-S next year, as VAMs like 47, 86, 103 need similar work. I will also take a closer look at the 78 Rev. of 79 to see if other changes are in order there.

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering Complete

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:05 am
by mark
:D 8-) Excellent.

I think there's a lot of work to do on the C reverses. :popcorn:

Re: 1878 7TF Minor Renumbering Complete

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:48 am
by messydesk
The C reverses are a project for another day. The ugliest listings, all the VAM 210s, were relatively low-hanging fruit.