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Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:11 pm
by messydesk
I had a chance to look at a scarce early die stage of the 78-S VAM 16 side-by-side with the one everyone has (thanks @lewisr2). The EDS has the gouge in the eagle's right wing extending far into the left field, while the more common one has it polished away, along with a light clash. This is the same reverse die used on VAM 20, which has no gouge in the wing at all, so the gouge is probably incidental damage that happened when the obverse die was changed.

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Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:27 pm
by vamnuke
Fortunately, I have one! Fortunately, no new hole as I’ve got a 2-sided clashed LDS ( no letter transfer). Thanks goes out to Lew for getting the EDS recognized. 8-)

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:35 am
by vamnuke
Earliest rev die is 20; EDS are 2-sided PL; LDS is 2-sided clashed; then came the EDS 16; my example is strong semi-PL; there are a couple of shorter gouges above the big one; not sure if die wear or polishing shortened the gouges (the standard one); LDS is 2–sided clashed; then cleaned up and used for 28.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:13 am
by Jodemyer
I posted one on CCF at beginning of the month. Glad to know it now has it's own attribution! I had wondered about the gouge extending so far into the field! Thanks for the great info!

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:43 pm
by lewisr2
There are four gouges above the gouge in the field, two about the same size then two shorter ones.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:41 am
by Jodemyer
Will the 16A have a different interest and Rarity number than the 16? Since it is scarce? Will it be added to any of the lists such as Top 100 or WOW etc, the doubling is as nice or very close to the doubling on the 111, 22 and 77. Just curious and learning, not sure how that works. (and since I have one I am just wishful thinking 😁)

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:40 pm
by messydesk
Jodemyer wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:41 am
Will the 16A have a different interest and Rarity number than the 16? Since it is scarce?
Rarity numbers are no longer used in additions to the VAM catalog. Comments on the wiki can attest to the rarity of a particular variety based on experience. When I spoke with Larry Briggs at the show, he confirmed that this is a rare one, having looked at over 100,000 78-S dollars.
Will it be added to any of the lists such as Top 100 or WOW etc, the doubling is as nice or very close to the doubling on the 111, 22 and 77. Just curious and learning, not sure how that works. (and since I have one I am just wishful thinking 😁)
No, these lists are not subject to change except by their authors and only then under extreme circumstances, such as when it's determined that a particular VAM doesn't exist.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:20 pm
by Jodemyer
Thankyou messydesk! I appreciate it! I was curious how that works!

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:48 am
by fogie
I have added the aforementioned new discovery to the SSDC registry and it is ready to populate....(& congratulations).

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:46 am
by lewisr2
Thanks Brent.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:06 pm
by pup_picker
is the coin pictured in this thread the ngc 63 in the census? the coin here sure looks unc.

also it looks like a SUPER DUPER tough find.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:08 pm
by lewisr2
No.
The V-16A pictured above is in the mail back to me now.
It is a PCGS 62.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:40 pm
by vamnuke
Mine will be in the next shipment to VSS.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:22 am
by tbconcrete
Not sure I agree with the separate listing. I also think Leroy lumped many Obv/Rev dies into one VAM with D1,D2,D4,D4 and D5, which I dint like either. But the new standards will be good for the hobby. 78S dies have many new listings coming in the near future. VAM46 is one I can think of with the many stages of the berry break. Lew has done a lot of work with that one. JR labeled my V1B as EDS and I wonder if that listing is worth the separate listing. Maybe JR can chime in if its worth another trip to the VAM Lords. It is very EDS. I have about ten examples that show multiple stages.
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Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:43 am
by 78-sLongnock
Thanks Lew for your “sharp” eye for identifying the differences in 1878-S vam 16 and now vam 16A.
Here are pics of a high grade but heavily Toned OB but clear Rev Vam 16A.

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am
by keilg1
Interesting, the 1991 original 'big book' only mentioned the one with the massive scratch into the field with clear picture of it. I2/R4 supposedly - thankfully we're not using I and R ratings anymore... this is a good example of those maybe being true-ish at some time but neither the case now!

Lovely coin that has eluded my searches thus far. Plenty of scratched wing versions but no extensions, unfortunately.

The hunt continues!

Re: Scarce EDS of 78-S VAM 16 now VAM 16A

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:01 pm
by lewisr2
The 1st edition VAM book by Leroy Van Allen& A. George Mallis did not have photos of 78-S VAM-16.
The 1st edition only listed 78-S VAMs 1 to 11.
The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th editions had V-16 photos and one of the reverse photos was with the die gouge on the field.
So, the gouge on the field has been known since 1976.