What is the correct term?

[vampicker]

okeydokey

[PacificWR]

I'll tell you what Charles Barder proved. He proved the dies were not soft. That's what the mintage of 264,000 and 405,000 prove.

[vampicker]

that's worth two okeydokeys

[PacificWR]

Here you have it. Straight from the mint:

[

[PacificWR]

The resolution to this was the first gas furnace being installed in the New Orleans mint. I can show those mint records to.

[vampicker]

So you think this is all due to planchets being 'off'?

[PacificWR]

I did not say that. Think about what Charles Barder proved and what Mr. Downing is saying. Without a doubt this proves that it was not a soft die. No question.

[vampicker]

Ok, I'll rethink the Barber letter. Seems like a detour off topic. How is a planchet issue in any way relevant to the 89 Philly issue under discussion?

[messydesk]

[Tekkie1]

OOPS...

Don't mind me gents, just looking for the Men's room.

[morganman]

Well geez guys ie; Pacific & JR; Im going to take credit LOL for starting the 1889
debate thing... Fantastic info i knew absolutely nothing
about, as i never have been involved or much interested
in finer details of dies etc.. Sure glad folks here understand
and are knowledable about dies etc

i just enjoyed amasing numbers, learning basics & values
and buying/selling for profit. Not until much later did i
learn Vams and collecting for fun/thrills of hunt etc

Hats off to those here that have dedicated time to learn
the finer workings of our beloved Morgans.

[PacificWR]

Ok, I'll rethink the Barber letter. Seems like a detour off topic. How is a planchet issue in any way relevant to the 89 Philly issue under discussion?

They both just blew the Morgan Dollar soft die theory out of the water. Wow! Even back them. I don't know how many times it will take for you to get it. The facts just don't add up.

[vampicker]

I call BS on that. Downing's letter is a solution for an unrelated die issue. Proper softening of planchets prior to striking is a remedy for premature die breakage.
How would softer planchets in any way fix the oddity seen on the VAM 23A/B obverse?
Nothing in your detailed progression explains the how. Barber had to play politics as part of his job because he had to answer to political appointees. Downing was a different story, he only answered to Barber. I seized upon the mention of a complaint about dies being too soft in Baber's letter and read too much into it. Reading and re-reading it, he's talking about a variety of complaints that he's being dismissive of. And, yes, I'm making an assumption about what die failure was in the original complaint that prompted Baber's response based on Downing's solution. It's a great backstory for a study of progressive die breaks common to New Orleans issues, but it's not relevant here.
I've read your entire progression. I don't think it says what you think it does. I certainly don't see a conclusion that explains how such radically differing outcomes occurred. Go ahead and try to claim victory and vindication yet again. I'm unlikely to respond further. I don't care if you agree with me or want to undercut my work. I leave it to others to read my work and judge for themselves if it presents a plausible and likely explanation for what the coins themselves illustrate.

[PacificWR]

Oh boy, here we go again, just keep ignoring the facts. Close the front door.

[vampicker]

Oh boy, here we go again, just keep ignoring the facts. Close the front door.

A perfect summation of your diatribe. But I agree with you, let's close this door

[PacificWR]

In this post your soft die unproven theory has been blown out of the water at least three times with FACTS. Which, you just ignore. Well, you known what? That does not change the facts. The front door is closed.

[LateDateMorganGuy]

Well, at least this is apparently over except for the intermission folks. Like my father used to say, "All this will get you is a glass of water and toothpick for $0.25".

[vampicker]

You have presented many facts. But when questioned about their relevance to the subject at hand, you repeat yourself and don't actually answer. I'd accuse you of circular argument, but that implies something more cohesive than anything you've presented.

In all of this, I've asked repeatedly for an alternate explanation of the pieces in question. I accept you won't answer my question.

So, I'll ask the other members of this forum - do any of you understand what the hell Wayne is trying to say happened with the obverse die in the VAM 23A/23B progression?

[LateDateMorganGuy]

Nope, don't care. The only thing in all of this that would catch my attention is actually finding a V23A. The rest is noise.

[PacificWR]

You have presented many facts. But when questioned about their relevance to the subject at hand, you repeat yourself and don't actually answer. I'd accuse you of circular argument, but that implies something more cohesive than anything you've presented.

In all of this, I've asked repeatedly for an alternate explanation of the pieces in question. I accept you won't answer my question.

So, I'll ask the other members of this forum - do any of you understand what the hell Wayne is trying to say happened with the obverse die in the VAM 23A/23B progression?

It was not a soft die! The facts prove that. Over and over again. In answer to your question., It all starts with a VAM-23. None have been verified by LVA, However, I have an X factor coin that is the earliest known use of the reverse die of the VAM-23 and VAM-7 series. LVA did not know what to do with it (that was a first). Could it be a VAM-23? It sure could, but before I make the determination, I need to find one or two more specimens and that is where the problem is. In over a year I have not been able to locate another one. However, I am still looking. Is there something unique about it. Oh yes, and it has nothing to do with a soft die. When I do find a couple of more specimens, detailed photos will be taken, and I will create a new post.