Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
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jtlee321
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Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by jtlee321 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:43 am

Hey guys, I just received an '89-O V-13B that I bought unattributed on the bay. It was from one of those well known "horrible" sellers. They edit the images to hide the problems. I'll include the sellers image and mine for comparison. It was sold raw as an AU/UNC, it's clearly AU. But it is harshly cleaned on both sides. Obviously the images were blurred to hide this and it should be considered fraud. But that has nothing to do with my dilemma, I can return it for a full refund. I paid $99.00 for it shipped, which would have been fair for a non-cleaned '89-O. I am also torn about keeping it. What would you do in this situation? I appreciate any feedback. Thank you
1889-O Morgan Dollar Obverse Sellers Image.jpeg
1889-O Morgan Dollar Obverse Sellers Image.jpeg (221.27 KiB) Viewed 849 times
1889-O-Morgan-Dollar-Obverse.jpg
1889-O-Morgan-Dollar-Obverse.jpg (286.25 KiB) Viewed 849 times

JASONKFLO
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by JASONKFLO » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:26 am

Return and bad review stating photos are clearly doctored . Though it is easy to see the pics are doctored .
Jason Floyd
I climb Mountains , Grow Bamboo and like Coins

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jtlee321
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by jtlee321 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:36 am

JASONKFLO wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:26 am
Return and bad review stating photos are clearly doctored . Though it is easy to see the pics are doctored .
I agree that the images were doctored, every one of their auctions are exactly the same. I will leave Negative Feedback no matter what I do. But, is it a tough enough VAM that I should return it and let it go? I do have an UNC version of this same VAM, so it's not like I am losing out on having it. But.... Lol

fogie
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by fogie » Tue Jul 26, 2022 4:24 am

Personally I would not give them financial benefit for the bad behavior.

DHalladay
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by DHalladay » Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:32 pm

JASONKFLO wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:26 am
Return and bad review stating photos are clearly doctored . Though it is easy to see the pics are doctored .
This... in a heartbeat.
When in doubt... don't.

dave700x
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by dave700x » Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:28 pm

I'm baffled that this seller even has positive feedback and shame on ebay for allowing this fraudulent activity. Definitely leave negative feedback and watch for it to disappear.
1883-O nut

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messydesk
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by messydesk » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:20 pm

SNAD and negative feedback.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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bob259
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by bob259 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 3:28 pm

In it's condition it is not worth $99 dollars. Send it back and if everyone who buys from him sends them back maybe it will stop the fraud.

lured_in_again
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by lured_in_again » Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:43 pm

I was curious what one of those polished up looking "AU/BU" coins actually looked like in hand. Seems from that seller's feedback that quite a few don't know what they are buying compared to what they are receiving. I'd say send it back and note the difference in the feedback as well.

iwillbenice
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by iwillbenice » Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:49 pm

This seller has been under my radar for some time.Sold me shit a while back.
Time to blow this seller in.Thank you. :evil:

Tekkie1
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by Tekkie1 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:59 pm

This seller has destroyed more Silver Dollars Altering them by every form and fashion than I can imagine.

Although it's been harshly cleaned...its still a pretty cool specimen. I can see your dilemma. :popcorn: :popcorn:

Dirtdoctor
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by Dirtdoctor » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:27 pm

I've bought some coins from this seller prior to him changing approach. Back then it was very hit and miss due to fuzzy pictures, but I got a few tuff varieties. He then started photo shopping and filtering, combined with heavily cleaning or buffing. Apparently his sales went up as a result and he continues this practice, destroying the coins, and I no longer even look at his listings.

If you have a good example, I'd send it back.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:04 pm

Everyone has their approach. Whoever this seller is, there are others that do the same thing. Most folks (at least on this site) can tell when photos have been doctored. Apparently you recognized it. I usually ferret out my coin purchase decisions before going after a coin, knowing the photos have been doctored. My attitude is you knew it was doctored before you bought it. Knowing that, the price you are willing to pay should factor in the doctored photos. Apparently, you bought the coin anyway. My approach is to not knock the seller in this case, and just suck it up and keep the coin since you apparently knew something was amiss. But you can leave whatever feedback you want.

Probably not a popular approach with most. But if I knew beforehand, and decided to go for it anyway, I suffer the consequences.

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Longstrider
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by Longstrider » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:53 pm

Nasty.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:56 pm

I guess taking personal responsibility is a lost concept.

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jtlee321
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by jtlee321 » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:02 pm

LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:04 pm
Everyone has their approach. Whoever this seller is, there are others that do the same thing. Most folks (at least on this site) can tell when photos have been doctored. Apparently you recognized it. I usually ferret out my coin purchase decisions before going after a coin, knowing the photos have been doctored. My attitude is you knew it was doctored before you bought it. Knowing that, the price you are willing to pay should factor in the doctored photos. Apparently, you bought the coin anyway. My approach is to not knock the seller in this case, and just suck it up and keep the coin since you apparently knew something was amiss. But you can leave whatever feedback you want.

Probably not a popular approach with most. But if I knew beforehand, and decided to go for it anyway, I suffer the consequences.
Of course I knew the images were doctored, I mean anyone on this forum can see that. But there are various reasons the seller would do that. After receiving the coin it was very clear what the seller is hiding, vs. prior to purchase it could have been anything. If it was lightly cleaned, I'd probably keep it. But, it looks like a wire brush was used on it and the image editing was done to hide that. That can be construed as fraud.

I am all about personal responsibility, but what about the responsibility of running an honest business and not swindling unsuspecting people out of their money? If the seller can take the time to apply masks and filters to every image, they can certainly tell if a coin is lightly cleaned, harshly cleaned or not a problem coin at all. That is the problem that I and everyone else here has with this seller.

What we don't like is you excusing the seller and placing blame on the victim. There are a lot of victims out there who won't know they have been had. I did not start this thread because I was scammed, I knew something was amiss but to what extent was the question. My question I asked is do you think the variety is tough enough to keep the coin in the condition it's in or simply return it. At this point everyone seems to agree with what I was leaning towards and that is returning. I will of course return it under SNAD and leave negative feedback. Now if I was to show the communications between the seller and I, it would be very clear that they know exactly what they are doing and they don't want SNAD's or Negative Feedback. Sort of like a porch pirate getting caught taking your package and then begging you not to call the police, it's pathetic.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:33 pm

LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:04 pm
Probably not a popular approach with most.
Guess a lot of folks missed what I said.

I do not excuse the so-called scammer. But you knew something was wrong going in. Do what you want. I just offered an opinion.

What's the saying, "Buyer Beware".

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jtlee321
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by jtlee321 » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:34 am

It's gone back under SNAD. I will be leaving a scathing review once my refund has come through.

lured_in_again
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by lured_in_again » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:13 am

I'd be interested in knowing when you post the feedback..... just to watch and see if E bay deletes it due to it being one of their big sellers. In which case, a call to E bay would be in order... about covering for bad sellers.

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LateDateMorganGuy
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Re: Keep or return 1889-O V-13B

Post by LateDateMorganGuy » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:55 pm

Just something to keep in mind. While you are standing on principle for this transaction, this won't change anything on Ebay. Although you will get some sort of personal satisfaction I guess.

Ebay exists (as every company does) to make money. They make money on volume sellers. Ebay will NOT stand on principle to somehow punish this seller or ban them.

Follow the $$$. That is the case with everything in life. I know folks don't like my posts in this regard, but it is reality.

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