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82 O/S Die question

Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:39 pm
by SilverToken
Just Curious,

Has anyone ever VAM'd out which San Francisco Dies were used for the 82 O/S VAM 3, 4 & 5?

And while I am on the subject of dies, do you believe that the "rarity" of the 2021 D Morgan MS-70 is attributed to the reusing of the previous obverse marks, and Denver had the hand me down's (initials removed (lol)?

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 2:28 pm
by messydesk
There is no indication that these were not SF dies returned to Philadelphia. Reverse dies could be, and were, carried over from year to year at the branch mints.

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 3:26 pm
by vampicker
Further, there's strong evidence the O/S variants were their respective first uses. The EDS pieces are actually early die states.

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 2:57 pm
by SilverToken
Thanks for clearing up my confusion that the reverse Die used was a new "extra". It would be wonderful to have been a fly on the wall when these decisions and discussions were happening...
Why are we shipping our die?
Why did they get the blanks?
Why do these E's keep getting caught tween the tail feathers, y'all?
and of course.. Hey, you set it up, I just ran them and shipped them!

Be Safe, and enjoy the weekend!

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 6:24 pm
by RogerB
RE: "...which San Francisco Dies were used for the 82 O/S VAM 3, 4 & 5?"

All O/S (or S/O) mintmark dies were prepared at Philadelphia -- where all dies were made. It would have been as much trouble to soften, then fill and overstrike, then harden and temper an old die as to simply put the correct mintmark on a new die. The only reasonable situation was that one/or more of the die sinkers mistakenly entered the wrong mintmark, then overstruck it with the one to match an order for revere dies.

Each mint commonly retained usable reverse dies from prior years, so the actual reverse dies might have been made in 1882 or several earlier years.

Hope this helps a little.

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 6:35 pm
by dave700x
Were the dies hardened in Philly prior to shipment to the branch mints? I thought I read somewhere that they were shipped soft to thwart the possibility of use if stolen.

Re: 82 O/S Die question

Posted: Thu May 26, 2022 10:46 pm
by RogerB
Shipping soft dies was done at San Francisco and sometimes for Carson (after the got a new Ajax press). The purpose was to facilitate cutting of the dies to fit old presses in use at those mints.

Only Philadelphia's engraving Dept. had punches for mintmarks letters, etc.