1921 D VAM 1L[?] Is it 2, 3 or a new 4?

Raybob15239 · Post by **Raybob15239** » Tue May 03, 2022 4:55 pm

Picked up a 21-D that is part of the VAM 1L family. There are no pictures on the 1L3 page, so I am at a bit of a loss.

Here's the full coin pics:

: 20220503_124605.jpg (123.59 KiB) Viewed 2877 times

: 20220503_124631.jpg (158.51 KiB) Viewed 2877 times

The scribbles area is devoid of all detail and the right wing is overpolished, removing feather details.

: 20220503_124049.jpg (85.57 KiB) Viewed 2877 times

: 20220503_124046.jpg (106.46 KiB) Viewed 2877 times

The M break is a later progression:

: Screenshot_20220503-124405_Gallery.jpg (42.82 KiB) Viewed 2877 times

Is this 1L3 or could it it be a new addition to the family? @@messydesk and @@vampicker, can you offer any insight? Thanks!

DHalladay · Post by **DHalladay** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:11 pm

There are more scribbles there than you think. Take your strongest loupe and look at it from the 3 o'clock position with a light source over your right shoulder.

Without seeing the coin in hand I'm leaning more toward 1L2.

Raybob15239 · Post by **Raybob15239** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:20 pm

Not seeing any, but I only have a 10x triplet at the office.

: 20220503_131845.jpg (67.47 KiB) Viewed 2870 times

hairfield1 · Post by **hairfield1** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:21 pm

Looks like 1L1 to me

DHalladay · Post by **DHalladay** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:43 pm

Here are pixs of what I'm calling 1L2... but maybe I'm wrong?

: scribbles small.jpg (309.12 KiB) Viewed 2867 times

: OF_AM small.jpg (200.17 KiB) Viewed 2867 times

: bust tip.jpg (185.25 KiB) Viewed 2867 times

: L stars 1-2-3.jpg (262.5 KiB) Viewed 2867 times

Post by **messydesk** » Tue May 03, 2022 8:22 pm

The listings are a bit of a mess, to say the least. All cite the die break at AM, which should really only be on the late die stage. What makes sense if there are to be 3 stages is (1) scribbles on a fresh die, (2) die break not fully developed, (3) full die break on M. The other stuff is noise and leads to threads like this one. Here's Leroy's picture of 1L3, although it doesn't fix any of the confusion.

: 1921 D VAM 1L3 Break MER.jpg (217.79 KiB) Viewed 2856 times

Raybob15239 · Post by **Raybob15239** » Tue May 03, 2022 9:24 pm

Here's mine. If this is what makes it 1L3, is mine the 3 then?[attachment=0]20220503_172207.jpg[/attachment]

DHalladay · Post by **DHalladay** » Tue May 03, 2022 10:23 pm

John:

Thanks for joining this discussion!
Here's the break across the top of the M of my coin, which looks to be MUCH more pronounced than the plate image. Or is that just an illusion?

: AMER break.jpg (160.09 KiB) Viewed 2843 times

Post by **messydesk** » Tue May 03, 2022 11:59 pm

It is more pronounced. It matches the original VAM 1L. So which is it? The fact that it is difficult to say leads me to think the best solution may be to scrap the current 1L1, 1L2, and 1L3 and create new ones as I mentioned above, yours being 1L3. It wouldn't really be that disruptive, since most of the current coins are probably already wrong.

DHalladay · Post by **DHalladay** » Wed May 04, 2022 12:29 am

messydesk wrote: ↑
Tue May 03, 2022 11:59 pm
It is more pronounced. It matches the original VAM 1L. So which is it? The fact that it is difficult to say leads me to think the best solution may be to scrap the current 1L1, 1L2, and 1L3 and create new ones as I mentioned above, yours being 1L3. It wouldn't really be that disruptive, since most of the current coins are probably already wrong.

Can we please do that?

RogerRock · Post by **RogerRock** » Wed May 04, 2022 1:37 am

Submitted my LDS 1921 D VAM 1L3 twice to LVA, in August 12 2018 and again in April 22 2021. Both times resulted in additional descriptions as VAM 1L3. First revision "added breaks above TATES OF to description". Second revision added "plus break above wing tip to A". No plate photos were included on both revisions. This 1921 D is slabbed in ANACS MS 63 1921 D $ VAM 1L3 #6229053.

Coin pictured by Dennis is a 1921 D $ VAM 1L3. Photos need to posted for 1921 D VAM 1L3.

Post by **messydesk** » Wed May 04, 2022 1:58 pm

DHalladay wrote: ↑
Wed May 04, 2022 12:29 am

messydesk wrote: ↑
Tue May 03, 2022 11:59 pm
It is more pronounced. It matches the original VAM 1L. So which is it? The fact that it is difficult to say leads me to think the best solution may be to scrap the current 1L1, 1L2, and 1L3 and create new ones as I mentioned above, yours being 1L3. It wouldn't really be that disruptive, since most of the current coins are probably already wrong.
Can we please do that?

Send me the coins I need to document it properly and I will.

Raybob15239 · Post by **Raybob15239** » Wed May 04, 2022 3:26 pm

Mine seems to have more displacement at the A M break. Would it make sense for you to have the various coins in hand? I am happy to send mine if it helps.

vamsterdam · Post by **vamsterdam** » Wed May 04, 2022 5:19 pm

i have seen multiple examples of this vam, slabbed unattributed this year, including another one at CSNS.

DHalladay · Post by **DHalladay** » Wed May 04, 2022 7:26 pm

Here is a coin I bought from Rob Joyce. He believes it was the plate coin for VAM 1AC in his book, "Fun With 1921". The crazy thing is, according to the VAM 1BG attribution page, 1AC was later eliminated after it was found to be VAM 1BG. Except this VAM 1AC is actually an EDS example of VAM 1L: