1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Post Reply
MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:29 pm

I received one of these today (VAM 1B/190 reeds/Yes, I actually counted them). Other than the obvious pitting, this coin has significantly more die cracks not seen on the others. My T-A crack takes a differnt path. I've read VAM 101 and submission guidelines. Do my pictures possibly qualify for a new attribution? Full disclosure: eventually this coin (MS64ish)will end up at ANACS to verify or research. TIA
Attachments
S20220425_0008.jpg
S20220425_0008.jpg (351.3 KiB) Viewed 768 times
S20220425_0011.jpg
S20220425_0011.jpg (389.16 KiB) Viewed 768 times
S20220425_0016.jpg
S20220425_0016.jpg (339.56 KiB) Viewed 768 times
S20220425_0005.jpg
S20220425_0005.jpg (365.85 KiB) Viewed 768 times
S20220425_0012.jpg
S20220425_0012.jpg (329.98 KiB) Viewed 768 times

MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:36 pm

Holysmokes! I just noticed that wreath crack goes all the way through the wing to the s in trust. Can't say I've seen that before.

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by messydesk » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:49 pm

1. The cracks you show aren't a match for VAM 1B.
2. Whatever the VAM, I don't see anything warranting listing separately in the pictures.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:07 am

I'm not sure I understand. So if I have the 1B, 1E, and VAM 25 pitted obverse with those cracks, what might it be? I do not have the 1E and 25 attributes.....

User avatar
ljs123
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by ljs123 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:34 am

Could you show a photo of the bust point through the 18 in 1883?
Also a photo of the eagle’s wing neck gap?

MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:10 am

Wing Neck shots were tough so I added two. Not much there.
Attachments
S20220425_0017.jpg
S20220425_0017.jpg (392.7 KiB) Viewed 715 times
S20220425_1883a.jpg
S20220425_1883a.jpg (319.25 KiB) Viewed 715 times
S20220425_1883.jpg
S20220425_1883.jpg (359.78 KiB) Viewed 715 times
S20220425_1883_pitting.jpg
S20220425_1883_pitting.jpg (370.36 KiB) Viewed 715 times

MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:59 am

Another weird spot for a crack.
Attachments
S20220425_1883_init.jpg
S20220425_1883_init.jpg (362.87 KiB) Viewed 707 times

User avatar
ljs123
Posts: 1625
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by ljs123 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:22 am

Look at VAM-14.

MarkyB
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:50 pm
Location: Nebraska

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by MarkyB » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:31 am

Perfect! VAM 14 needs to be listed under the pitted dies guide. Thank you.

keilg1
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:36 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by keilg1 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:49 am

MarkyB wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:31 am
Perfect! VAM 14 needs to be listed under the pitted dies guide. Thank you.
@MarkyB, as we all explore more the more we learn that somethings are very common and well described. Adding the VAM-14 to the Pitted Die page (http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compu ... itted_Dies) would be helpful even if "Pitting Liberty Head" is clearly stated in the title description.

I love the 1883 coins for another reason (a professional society I'm in was founded then) and have learned what is also stated in the general year/mm page: "1883 is one of the most common Philadelphia Morgan dollars. They tend to be lustrous, but often this is a result of die erosion or fine pitting on the dies, both of which compromise the quality of strike." In other words, a LOT of use/misuse that leads to a lot of minor variations but not a lot that constitue new varieties, but dang they are fun to comb through!

The crack in the neckline (above the "M") is actually not a weird spot for a crack, btw. Lots of different years and mints show the same thing. Cracks do not make a variety however interesting. They and clashing are super fun to explore - here's an older post (and from a different year/mint) if you're interested in a bit of fun: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5980&p=50301.

Happy hunting,

Gary

User avatar
messydesk
Site Admin
Posts: 3225
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 1:57 am

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by messydesk » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:59 pm

MarkyB wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:31 am
Perfect! VAM 14 needs to be listed under the pitted dies guide. Thank you.
Best not to rely on the extra guides to find things. Many are good, but they aren't consistently maintained. The wiki has a good search engine that can help find things quickly. Search for "1883-P" (in quotes) and pitting and a short list comes up. "1883-P" and pitted brings up a slightly different list. "1883-P" and pitt* will find both pitting and pitted.
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

dave700x
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:36 am
Location: Texas

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by dave700x » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:36 pm

messydesk wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:59 pm
MarkyB wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:31 am
Perfect! VAM 14 needs to be listed under the pitted dies guide. Thank you.
Best not to rely on the extra guides to find things. Many are good, but they aren't consistently maintained. The wiki has a good search engine that can help find things quickly. Search for "1883-P" (in quotes) and pitting and a short list comes up. "1883-P" and pitted brings up a slightly different list. "1883-P" and pitt* will find both pitting and pitted.
Great search tip!
1883-O nut

User avatar
jrfaust
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 3:25 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: 1883 Small Pox: Is it worthy

Post by jrfaust » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:55 pm

DITTO! What Dave said! :D
Who is John Galt?

Post Reply