1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

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Dirtdoctor
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1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

Post by Dirtdoctor » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:27 pm

I went back and forth on whether this coin was VAM 2 S/S Top 100 or VAM 4 S/S Sides. Pretty much had settled on VAM 4 as best fit. However a couple things don't seem to match up well. Its a nice coin with no wear so there is no masking going on.
    Is that a listable die break on reverse below the E. It runs as semi-circle, with displacement in the field, from between the denticles between the N and E, and over to the denticle below the right side of the E. Although it seems pretty obvious now, I was never looking for it and had not noticed.
      Since I now was wondering again, I had noted the polishing lines in the field both on the reverse near the eagle, and on the obverse in front of Liberty's neck.
        The eagle has a little topknot.
          The I of In on the reverse has a die chip between the right and left vertical shafts of the letter.

          Is this a VAM 4 with PMD or otherwise un-listable characteristics, or a new sub-variety? Sorry to photo-bomb you but I need to include pics to illustrate.
          Attachments
          1886 S VAM4 ICG MS63 MS63! Obverse copy.jpg
          1886 S VAM4 ICG MS63 MS63! Obverse copy.jpg (295.37 KiB) Viewed 997 times
          1886 S VAM4 ICG MS63 MS63! Reverse copy.jpg
          1886 S VAM4 ICG MS63 MS63! Reverse copy.jpg (302.57 KiB) Viewed 997 times
          Closeup E Crack 1886 S MS63 4.jpg
          Closeup E Crack 1886 S MS63 4.jpg (138.1 KiB) Viewed 997 times
          Closeup E Crack 1886 S MS63 6.jpg
          Closeup E Crack 1886 S MS63 6.jpg (133.64 KiB) Viewed 997 times
          1886 S Closeup E Break marked up.jpg
          1886 S Closeup E Break marked up.jpg (147.45 KiB) Viewed 997 times

          Dirtdoctor
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by Dirtdoctor » Sun Apr 24, 2022 11:29 pm

          Pics of the other attributes I described...
          Attachments
          Closeup S 1886 S MS63.jpg
          Closeup S 1886 S MS63.jpg (130.45 KiB) Viewed 995 times
          1886 S Eagle Head and Wing Gap.jpg
          1886 S Eagle Head and Wing Gap.jpg (487.73 KiB) Viewed 995 times
          Die Chip In.jpg
          Die Chip In.jpg (101.69 KiB) Viewed 995 times
          Eagle Topknot 1886 S MS63.jpg
          Eagle Topknot 1886 S MS63.jpg (123.38 KiB) Viewed 995 times
          Left Leg Die Polish Lines 1886 S MS63.jpg
          Left Leg Die Polish Lines 1886 S MS63.jpg (162.93 KiB) Viewed 995 times

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          alefzero
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by alefzero » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:22 am

          Can't tell, but is that a planchet defect?

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          messydesk
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by messydesk » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:52 am

          Looks like a planchet defect below the E to me.
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          Unc90o
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by Unc90o » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:54 am

          Rim burr?

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          ljs123
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by ljs123 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:30 am

          messydesk wrote:
          Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:52 am
          Looks like a planchet defect below the E to me.

          What about the VAM JB?
          I’m not feeling VAM-4.

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          messydesk
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by messydesk » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:10 am

          ljs123 wrote:
          Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:30 am
          messydesk wrote:
          Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:52 am
          Looks like a planchet defect below the E to me.

          What about the VAM JB?
          I’m not feeling VAM-4.
          I see the doubled serifs on the S of VAM 4, so I don't have a reason to say it isn't VAM 4. 86-S only has a few VAMs listed. A die study might show there are multiple obverses with that reverse.
          Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

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          ljs123
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by ljs123 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:20 am

          It looks like the date in this post has a slant to it, like the VW photos of VAMs 2 & 3. The VW photo of VAM-4 looks like the one is slightly higher creating a level date.

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          vampicker
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by vampicker » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:28 pm

          This is a VAM 4. The reverse is a good match and the obverse has a fine crack from the point of the bust thru the lower two tips of the first left star, You can see this crack on the full obverse shot in this thread and on the second set of full coin shots on the VAM 4 page. There should also be a small die chip inside the nostril.
          The mark on the reverse is in or on the planchet. I'd have to see it in hand,. There are three options - rim burr, lamination, or retained fragment. Can't really tell which from the pictures. but I'd lean towards a rim burr.
          often the crusher of hopes and dreams

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          ljs123
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by ljs123 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:33 pm

          Not the first I’ve been VAM wrong. I’m sure it won’t be the last.
          Thank you JB & JR for all of your input on VW.

          Dirtdoctor
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          Re: 1886 S VAM 4 Listable Break

          Post by Dirtdoctor » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:08 pm

          Thanks very much. For what it's worth, in looking at my coin verses the first coin pictured on VAMWorld, the second 8 and the 6 have a diagonal die scratch on left side of bottom loop as well. I appreciate your input.
          Attachments
          1886 S Closeup Date DSLR.jpg
          1886 S Closeup Date DSLR.jpg (172.94 KiB) Viewed 924 times
          1886 S Closeup E DSLR.jpg
          1886 S Closeup E DSLR.jpg (234.98 KiB) Viewed 924 times

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