1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

General discussion board about VAMs, but no buy/sell offers
Post Reply
Mike7E
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by Mike7E » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:21 pm

I have a well struck, but not EDS, 1884-P VAM-9.2 and after looking it over think this VAM deserves its own page. It’s not just another generic very far date, even though there are only two listed, VAM 9 and VAM-21.
The VAM-9 page has the comment: “LVA has attributed not less than 2 die pairs as VAM-9. (Hence there is a VAM-9.1 & a VAM-9.2).” So, this is understandable, however the ‘catalog’ description on the page is “Obverse III2 9- Date set very further right than normal. Second 8 has dot on surface of right upper loop”. The date description is accurate for both these VAMs however the second 8 dot is only seen on the 9.1 obverse. Not mentioned on the page is that the 9.2 has minor double in the date and that all obverse stars are doubled on all sides.
(Also. could someone fix the description and change it to “very much further” as Leroy’s book states.)
The date position for both VAM-9.1 and 9.2 is the same, Date set much further right than normal (Very Far Date) LE4/RH5.
VAM-9.2 has minor doubling in the date. 1 doubled both sides lower crossbar, both 8s lower left and right bottom of lower loop. 4 top left lower crossbar, both sides back of upper crossbar and front slope
All obverse stars are doubled. I assume two hubs with different star sizes were used as the coin shows doubling on all sides of every star. Also at least one star has a broken tip.

VAM-9.2 description under pictures on the page, “There are several long die scratches around the eye. One pierces the eyelid. Another is in front of the eye. A third is below the eye and worms into the hair.” Pictures from a high grade coin below show additional scratches near the eye so a suggested new description ‘There are three roughly parallel die scratches around the eye. One pierces the eyelid, the next runs mid-eye to nose, the third from bottom of eye to nose. Another die scratch starts below the eye and worms its way towards ear. This scratch has several others descending from it that crisscross one another. There is also a group of die scratches or cracks behind the eye that radiate into the hair. Lower grade coins won’t have much of these markers left. Die scratch behind ear is there as on 9.2 picture but faint.
LIBERTY has two interesting PUPs: A die scratch/gouge starts under the L then goes under IB and weaker unto the E. A die break starts at the tip of the bottom serif of the L then goes over the top of the I and up to the wheat leaf.
Reverse:

Doubled letters UNITED -TA-E- OF AMERICA. Doubled ONE -OLLAR Right star doubled at top. Faint die breaks tops of NITE STAT ME.
Doubled letters In G-d -- tru--
At least one leaf doubled in every wreath cluster and several doubled in Olive Branch Leaves. Wreath bow clear, designer’s initial doubled.
Die scratches in 9.2 picture of Eagle’s left wing are on this coin but hard to see.

So how do we go about creating a new page? It should have new obverse and reverse die numbers as they are different from all the listed 1884-P dies. I see that at least 25 obverses and 3 reverses have been assigned in the series.
So, a possible description (I need help here from the keeper of the catalog) would be:
9.2 III2 26?- C3d? (Very Far Date)
Obverse III2 26?- Date set very much further right than normal, LE4/RH5. Doubled date. All stars doubled.
Reverse C3d?– Doubled letters IN --D -- TRU--. UNITED -TA-E- OF AMERICA Doubled leaves in all wreath clusters and olive leaves.

Comments:
1. VAM-9-1 and 9-2 are both LE4/RH5, Very Far Date. Die breaks at the date differ.
2. The die scratches near the eye will not be visible on lower grade coins, however the doubled stars will be.

Pictures follow, all comments are appreciated.
VAM-9.2
aM7E 1884-P V9.2  Date  Die Craaks .jpg
aM7E 1884-P V9.2 Date Die Craaks .jpg (141.58 KiB) Viewed 600 times
Die breaks VAM-9.2 that are different from VAM-9.1. Slight doubling at bust line.
Very Far Date, LE4/RH5, is the same for both VAM-9.1 & 9.2.
bM7E 1884-P V9,2 1 .jpg
bM7E 1884-P V9,2 1 .jpg (105.22 KiB) Viewed 600 times
cM7E 1884-P V9.2 first 8 .jpg
cM7E 1884-P V9.2 first 8 .jpg (103.73 KiB) Viewed 600 times
dM7E 1884-P V9.2 Second 8 .jpg
dM7E 1884-P V9.2 Second 8 .jpg (104.31 KiB) Viewed 600 times
eM7E 1884-P V9.2  4 .jpg
eM7E 1884-P V9.2 4 .jpg (108.85 KiB) Viewed 600 times
1 doubled both outsides lower crossbar, both 8s lower left and right outside of lower loop. 4 top left lower crossbar, both sides back of upper crossbar and front slope

Mike7E
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by Mike7E » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:26 pm

fM7E 1884-P V9.2 Eye Nose.jpg
fM7E 1884-P V9.2 Eye Nose.jpg (148.34 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Three scratches at eye, one pierces eyelid, next upper edge of eye to nose, third bottom of eye to nose. Lower grade coins less likely to show these and other raised scratches but should be identifiable by doubled obverse stars.
gM7E 1884-P V9.2  Die Scratches behind eye .jpg
gM7E 1884-P V9.2 Die Scratches behind eye .jpg (123.19 KiB) Viewed 598 times

Die scratch under eye “worms its way towards ear”. This scratch has several others descending from it that crisscross one another. There is also a group of scratches or die cracks behind the eye that migrate to the hair.
hM7E 1884-P V9.2 left star #2.jpg
hM7E 1884-P V9.2 left star #2.jpg (115.79 KiB) Viewed 598 times
All obverse stars are doubled. Left Star #2
iM7E 1884-P V9.2 Left Star 6 .jpg
iM7E 1884-P V9.2 Left Star 6 .jpg (120.42 KiB) Viewed 598 times
iiM7E 1884-P VAM-9.2 Right Star 3jpg.jpg
iiM7E 1884-P VAM-9.2 Right Star 3jpg.jpg (115.63 KiB) Viewed 598 times

Mike7E
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by Mike7E » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:31 pm

jM7E 1884-P V9.2 Dbl Stop.jpg
jM7E 1884-P V9.2 Dbl Stop.jpg (103.48 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Doubled Text Stop between E & P with a square edge towards the rim (no one seems to focus on Stop doubling but I have seen others)
kM7E 1884-P V9.2 LIBERTY.jpg
kM7E 1884-P V9.2 LIBERTY.jpg (126.03 KiB) Viewed 598 times
lM7E 1884-P V9.2 LIB.jpg
lM7E 1884-P V9.2 LIB.jpg (122.02 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Die scratch/gouge starts under the L then goes under IB and weaker upto the E. A die break starts at the tip of the bottom serif of the L then goes over the top of the I and up to the wheat leaf. Note that die scratches can start anytime in a die’s life and may fade away while die breaks will usually get worse but could be polished down.
mM7E 1884-P V9.2 Mark above Initial.jpg
mM7E 1884-P V9.2 Mark above Initial.jpg (123.57 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Line with loop and other die scratches above the designer’s initial. Random or did some very small object drop on the die?
mM7E 1884-P V9.2 Dbl Cap.jpg
mM7E 1884-P V9.2 Dbl Cap.jpg (88.38 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Doubling back of cap. Also at bottom of hair above 4.

Mike7E
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by Mike7E » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:34 pm

Reverse
nM7E 1884-P V9.2 RI .jpg
nM7E 1884-P V9.2 RI .jpg (124.05 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Doubled leaves, RI
oM7E 1884-P V9,2 A Star .jpg
oM7E 1884-P V9,2 A Star .jpg (120.5 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Doubled leaves, A, right star
pM7E 1884-P V9.2 Left Cluster 2 .jpg
pM7E 1884-P V9.2 Left Cluster 2 .jpg (123.01 KiB) Viewed 598 times
qM7E 1884-P V9.2 Olive Branch Leaves.jpg
qM7E 1884-P V9.2 Olive Branch Leaves.jpg (98.9 KiB) Viewed 598 times
At least one leaf doubled in every wreath cluster and several doubled in Olive Branch Leaves.
rM7E 1884-P V9.2 In .jpg
rM7E 1884-P V9.2 In .jpg (118.48 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Doubled In

Mike7E
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 am

Re: 1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by Mike7E » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:36 pm

sM7E 1884-P V9.2 trust.jpg
sM7E 1884-P V9.2 trust.jpg (117.93 KiB) Viewed 597 times
Doubled tru
tM7E 1884-P VAM-9.2 Wing gap.jpg
tM7E 1884-P VAM-9.2 Wing gap.jpg (120.2 KiB) Viewed 597 times
Wing gap has scratch like VAM-9.2 picture on page but hard to see.
uM7E 1884-P V9.2 Initial Wreath Bow.jpg
uM7E 1884-P V9.2 Initial Wreath Bow.jpg (119.33 KiB) Viewed 597 times
Doubled designer’s initial, clear bow
vM7E 1884-P V9.2 Obv.jpg
vM7E 1884-P V9.2 Obv.jpg (132.59 KiB) Viewed 597 times
xM7E 1884-P V9.2 Rev.jpg
xM7E 1884-P V9.2 Rev.jpg (108.28 KiB) Viewed 597 times

RogerB
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:30 pm

Re: 1884-P VAM-9.2 Very Far Date, Doubled Date, All stars doubled. Doubled reverse. Deserves its own page

Post by RogerB » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:31 pm

Very nice detail photos!
:)

Post Reply