Evidence for a kill

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DHalladay
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Location: Boise, ID area

Evidence for a kill

Post by DHalladay » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:58 pm

I haven’t sent the following two coins for in-hand confirmation yet, but J.B. and J.R. have been warned what I’m up to.

I spend a lot of time scrolling through at the 1921-P scribbles guide trying to identify unknown coins and even though I’d guess there are maybe 300 different VAMs pictured, my brain occasionally shouts, “Whoa up there Skippy! I think we already saw that one.” As time has gone by, the brain has become more and more right – and it usually involves a different coin than I was trying to attribute.

This happened most recently with VAMs 1AV and 1H, which the following pictures show are clearly different die states of the same die pairing.

For non-1921-P specialists, VAM 1H is truly goofy in terms of the PUPs it has. For one thing, it has five of them – all on the reverse and all gouges that look to have resulted from the same kind of worker carelessness or accident. Who knows, perhaps they all happened at the same time.

Since those gouges are so prominent and so numerous, I’m going to propose that 1H be killed and renamed 1AV2, since it is such a significant die state example.

Matching scribbles were all the evidence I needed to alert J.B. and J.R. that 1AH is the late die state version of 1AV. But I decided to look for more – and there was plenty to find on both sides.

VAM 1H, of course, is the only one with any of the reverse gouges:

VAM 1H gouge 1.jpg
VAM 1H gouge 1.jpg (141.64 KiB) Viewed 914 times
VAM 1H gouge 2.jpg
VAM 1H gouge 2.jpg (161.05 KiB) Viewed 914 times
VAM 1H gouge 3.jpg
VAM 1H gouge 3.jpg (178.93 KiB) Viewed 914 times
VAM 1H gouge 4.jpg
VAM 1H gouge 4.jpg (198.89 KiB) Viewed 914 times
VAM 1H gouge 5.jpg
VAM 1H gouge 5.jpg (189.9 KiB) Viewed 914 times
When in doubt... don't.

DHalladay
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 4:38 pm
Location: Boise, ID area

Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by DHalladay » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:00 pm

In addition to the scribbles, here are just 4 other PUPs the two coins share. There are LOTS of polishing lines in the cotton bolls/leaves area and in the right wing. The lines through the C in AMERICA are weaker on VAM 1H, as you would expect for an LDS coin, but they are there.

compare scribbles.jpg
compare scribbles.jpg (223.57 KiB) Viewed 913 times
compare leaf lines.jpg
compare leaf lines.jpg (321.77 KiB) Viewed 913 times
compare lines in C.jpg
compare lines in C.jpg (224.22 KiB) Viewed 913 times
compare right wing.jpg
compare right wing.jpg (226.37 KiB) Viewed 913 times
compare wreath.jpg
compare wreath.jpg (206.8 KiB) Viewed 913 times
When in doubt... don't.

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messydesk
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Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by messydesk » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:41 pm

Some of the stuff on VAM 1H would make me want to reach for my pokin' stick. Have planchet issues been ruled out for all the new features?
Welcome to the VAMWorld 2.0 discussion boards. R.I.P. old VAMWorld.

DHalladay
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Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by DHalladay » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:27 pm

messydesk wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:41 pm
Some of the stuff on VAM 1H would make me want to reach for my pokin' stick. Have planchet issues been ruled out for all the new features?
Don't ask me; I'm only going by what LVA's plate image shows (the A gouge), and what the description mentions (the other 4 gouges).
When in doubt... don't.

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messydesk
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Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by messydesk » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:48 am

OK. Not that I look, clearly different coins with the same stuff on them. Putting away the pokin' stick.
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fogie
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Location: Arizona

Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by fogie » Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:30 am

Looks like a kill shot to me!

keilg1
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Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by keilg1 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:32 am

fogie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:30 am
Looks like a kill shot to me!
Agree it seems this way. @DHalladay your attention to details is to be lauded and appreciated.

colwillys
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Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by colwillys » Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:38 pm

My opp , they both look the same . Stick to your guns Dennis make the kill .

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Raybob15239
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by Raybob15239 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:00 pm

Looks like the same dies to me.
I swear, someday I will learn how to grade Peace Dollars!

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Albannach
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Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by Albannach » Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:11 pm

Welcome to die study 101 and all the frivality that comes with it.

GOOD EYE!

Tennessee
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Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:56 am

Re: Evidence for a kill

Post by Tennessee » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:42 pm

Looks the same to me. I got to admit, the D does look like a horseshoe crab to me. Good eye, Great 👍job. Thanks...😀

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