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1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:28 pm
by Dirtdoctor
Both the 1892 CC - VAM 2 and 2a have pictures showing UR break. The 2a says the break is the beginning of the rim crud and is an early state of 2a. The first pic under VAM 2 shows the break as well, although not really in the text. I'm confused. Is the following coin a 2 or 2a?

Also not noted under 2a is a small break under the date from 1-8-9 that trails to the rim.

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:36 pm
by ljs123
I am the one that made the submission to LVA.
He called this a VAM-2. My VAM-2 was a XF-45. I have been trying to find an MS but every one I have seen has gone way over Graysheet, so I did not get them. I have doubts that it is the same die pair as the original VAM-2.
The date crack looks a lot like VAM-14 obverse. But the reverse seems different from the VAM-14 reverse.
It was the best I could find at the time to submit with the VAM-2A.
I think that LVA's EDS comment was pointing out that this was not a true CUD like the 2A.
It is way off from the one and only (so far) VAM-2A.

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:19 am
by messydesk
No cud, not VAM 2A. I would call this VAM 2. The only possible listable stage left is a retained cud if anyone finds it. That doesn't happen often on hammer dies, though, as the loose piece will simply fall out as soon as it's loose.

As for VAM 14, the date position is different, especially if you look at the lower left tip of the 2. Leroy notes that the VAM 2 and 14 share a reverse die.

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:22 am
by ljs123
John
Thanks for reminding me of the basics.
The date locations are very different.
:twisted: Cracks :oops:

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:13 pm
by Dirtdoctor
Thanks for responses. I agree it’s not 2a since cud is key attribute.
It does seem like something is missing, unless all “V2 CC tilted left” reverses have the U-R break. If so I’d think it would be in the description. That is a substantial break not to be listed.
Should there be a V2 “no break” and V2b “UR and date break” to go along with V2a cud?

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:38 pm
by ljs123
Dirtdoctor wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:13 pm
Thanks for responses. I agree it’s not 2a since cud is key attribute.
It does seem like something is missing, unless all “V2 CC tilted left” reverses have the U-R break. If so I’d think it would be in the description. That is a substantial break not to be listed.
Should there be a V2 “no break” and V2b “UR and date break” to go along with V2a cud?
LVA called it a UR crack not a displaced break on my coin.
Here is what he said in my letter.

"Die crack from rim to rim above UR in PLURIBUS with no apparent break. But EDS of the new rim cud. So of interest but not listed separately. Maybe later displaced field break on this crack before the cud fell off the die- like 1921 D VAM 1H reported earlier this yr. Something to look for. Thanks for sending this EDS coin with only die crack."

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:02 pm
by Dirtdoctor
Thanks. There is definitely displaced metal along the crack on mine, but I certainly yield to the experts.

Thanks again for your kind replies.

Re: 1892 CC VAM 2 or 2a?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:41 pm
by ljs123
I can only say that my coin was not listable. It was the first one that I could find with the UR crack. I wanted one to submit with the 2A.
I don’t know what the experts would say about your coin.
Good luck
I’m always looking for another 2A. 😀