PO01 pricing

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madbirder
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PO01 pricing

Post by madbirder » Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:10 am

Completely novice question here. I was going through the PCGS price guide and was looking at the lowest grades and noticed that the worst grade, PO01 was priced higher than PO02 and same goes fro 02 v 03. Just curious why there seems to be a premium on the worst grade possible. If that would have worked in high school I'd be loaded! :lol:

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...kenny
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by ...kenny » Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:20 am

best and worst. sometimes, collectors are weird... :lol:
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my.........Ahh........Uhmm........something, something, something..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:39 am

...kenny wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:20 am
best and worst. sometimes, collectors are weird... :lol:
Thanks.
I have made more money selling lowball coins and collections over higher graded coins.
To have the best collection, all you need is a lot of money and make a huge offer.
Try and put a lowball collection together is difficult. If you get them raw, and send them in and they don't grade. Your in big trouble as you have more in grading fees over the price of the coin.
I would spend hours looking in melt buckets, buying everything that looked low enough. Bringing it home and studying the POS. Had a bag of junk silver that 99% ended up in.
I sent in a lowball 1884 O VAM 6 in at least four times to get it a holder. Sent in a 1878 P VAM 15 lowball came back cleaned. Cracked it out carried in my pocket. Sent it back in came back bent. Put it in a press and fixed it, finally in a holder.

So build a lowball collection, I dare you to try.

DHalladay
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by DHalladay » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:09 am

PO01s always sell for more than 02s, 03s, etc. – and it's not unusual to be more than VF or XF. If you get into the right date (like 1881-CC, 1885-CC and 1903-O) it will be as much as MS63 or thereabouts.
When in doubt... don't.

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madbirder
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by madbirder » Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:43 pm

JohnGoldsmith wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:39 am
...kenny wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 2:20 am
best and worst. sometimes, collectors are weird... :lol:
Thanks.
I have made more money selling lowball coins and collections over higher graded coins.
To have the best collection, all you need is a lot of money and make a huge offer.
Try and put a lowball collection together is difficult. If you get them raw, and send them in and they don't grade. Your in big trouble as you have more in grading fees over the price of the coin.
I would spend hours looking in melt buckets, buying everything that looked low enough. Bringing it home and studying the POS. Had a bag of junk silver that 99% ended up in.
I sent in a lowball 1884 O VAM 6 in at least four times to get it a holder. Sent in a 1878 P VAM 15 lowball came back cleaned. Cracked it out carried in my pocket. Sent it back in came back bent. Put it in a press and fixed it, finally in a holder.

So build a lowball collection, I dare you to try.
Thanks for the answer, did make me laugh a bit. I've never thought about making a lowball set but there you go. Everyone will collect everything.

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madbirder
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by madbirder » Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:47 pm

Thanks all for the answers. It was puzzling to me but in thinking about it after I'd posted the question I suppose that many of the coins in that condition would have been taken out of circulation at banks due to their condition thus making them even more rare. I guess the same applies to all circulation coins when I come to think of it I've seen very few really worn coins so I deduce that the population of these coins is also low. Good luck to all you lowball collectors.

DHalladay
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by DHalladay » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:00 pm

It's not just lowball set collectors. Anyone doing a grading set will also need a Poor-01, and unless they stumble across one that is already in a holder and it makes them decide to start a set, Poor-01 will be the most difficult coin to find by far. That's how it was for me when I did my 1895-S grading set (01 to 58). Higher grade coins were expensive but they were out there. When I finally got my Poor-01 it was the only one PCGS had ever seen.

There are obstacles to Poor-01s getting into holders that many people don't realize, and it's pretty much impossible to appreciate just how hard it is until they try to get one graded themselves. For instance:

1. Cleaning & damage. Most poor-01s live in cull/melt buckets; for decades it has been their last stop on the way to being melted. The various sins that get coins put into melt buckets – harsh cleaning, graffiti, rim dings and other damage, polishing, etc. – are sins that would prevent them from ever being graded. But, of course, whatever problem-free Poor-01 candidates were in melt buckets of years past have already gone to coin heaven.

2. Wear part 1. Heavy, near-obliterating wear is an obvious expectation for Poor-01s, but there is also a 'cliff of death' to avoid going over. In grades below Very Good the rim on both sides begins to go away. Along with the lettering, the bottom of the date also begins to go away – and at Fair-02 and Poor-01 it can be exceedingly hard to be certain what some of the numbers are. ("Is the top of that 3rd one a 0 or a 3 or an 8 or a 9?"). The grading companies have to be certain what it is, or else they will reject the coin for grading (and they certainly won't take what you put on the submission form as proof). You think getting body bags is disappointing? 'Rejected for grading' stickers are worse.

3. Wear part 2. In my experience, not being able to make out the date isn't the biggest problem that comes with heavy, near-obliterating wear. The #1 worry is on the other side of the coin – being able to be certain that a coin which appears to not have a mint mark now didn't originally have one. If the grading company isn't sure, then the coin won't get graded. This is why P-mint coins are tougher to 'make' in Poor-01 than those that still have faint mint marks.

3. Grading inconsistency. Ask anyone who has dealt with Poor-01s for very long, especially those who have submitted multiple raw coins for grading, and the first one who says grading companies know what they're doing at the bottom of the grading scale will be the first one I have ever heard of. I'm willing to say there may be as many Poor-01 Morgans in Fair-02 holders as there are in Poor-01 holders. And it's not really a surprise. Graders get to see a lot of super-high grade coins every day. But Poors and Fairs? Hah! If you ever get the opportunity to see multiple Poor-01s and Fair-02s together in a group, don't pass it up. You'll see what I mean.
When in doubt... don't.

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:25 pm

"3. Grading inconsistency. Ask anyone who has dealt with Poor-01s for very long, especially those who have submitted multiple raw coins for grading, and the first one who says grading companies know what they're doing at the bottom of the grading scale will be the first one I have ever heard of. I'm willing to say there may be as many Poor-01 Morgans in Fair-02 holders as there are in Poor-01 holders. And it's not really a surprise. Graders get to see a lot of super-high grade coins every day. But Poors and Fairs? Hah! If you ever get the opportunity to see multiple Poor-01s and Fair-02s together in a group, don't pass it up. You'll see what I mean."


If you send a coin in for grading, how many times do you see the grading service up the grade because they are not sure?
Since the price of a PO1 can be so much higher over a FR2. Numerous times it will get a FR2 grade.

Also I have spent over an hour trying to confirm a coin. How long does a TPG spend?

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madbirder
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by madbirder » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:52 pm

Wow! So many things that I never considered or knew about. It never dawned on me that one would collect a 1-58 set, makes total sense when you say it but had never occurred to me. Some very good information in this post so thanks to all who contributed. Another fascinating aspect of Morgans I had no clue about. Just one more rabbit hole in the Watership Down of coin warrens to go down! :D

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:28 pm

madbirder wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:52 pm
Wow! So many things that I never considered or knew about. It never dawned on me that one would collect a 1-58 set, makes total sense when you say it but had never occurred to me. Some very good information in this post so thanks to all who contributed. Another fascinating aspect of Morgans I had no clue about. Just one more rabbit hole in the Watership Down of coin warrens to go down! :D

Somebody told me it would be hard, so I put together a PCGS grading set. 1921 D, PO1 thru MS65+, did not have the XF45 + or any AU + coins. Also in the set was several of the coins PCGS body bagged in the holder. Cleaned, artificial toning, and so forth.

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:53 am

What is this and grade it. My latest junk bucket coin.
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DHalladay
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by DHalladay » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:14 am

Peace dollar
When in doubt... don't.

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:24 am

DHalladay wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:14 am
Peace dollar
Another stand up comic.

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vampicker
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by vampicker » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:58 pm

Looks like you'd have a tough time getting that in a holder. I barely see a trace of the O of ONE left so any mintmark would likely be gone
often the crusher of hopes and dreams

DHalladay
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by DHalladay » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:54 pm

JohnGoldsmith wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:24 am
DHalladay wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:14 am
Peace dollar
Another stand up comic.

:D
OK, OK... 1928-something.
But not gradeable because the presence or absence of a mint mark can't be determined.
Poor-01 otherwise, but toss it back into the melt bucket.
When in doubt... don't.

JohnGoldsmith
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by JohnGoldsmith » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:19 pm

vampicker wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:58 pm
Looks like you'd have a tough time getting that in a holder. I barely see a trace of the O of ONE left so any mintmark would likely be gone
I felt sorry for the old girl headed to the melting pot. So I gave her a good home.

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Longstrider
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by Longstrider » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:15 pm

Poor old Peace Dollars. They get no respect.🐍

vamtiques
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by vamtiques » Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:53 pm

This is not a Morgan/Peace dollar, but was a shocker lowball of a SBA dollar, probably a 1979.
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vamtiques
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Re: PO01 pricing

Post by vamtiques » Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:55 pm

And one more of my lowballs, a FR-2 1922-S Peace dollar. (The mintmark is barely visible...)
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