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Dents in coins

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:00 pm
by chriskfla
Hello, and thanks for letting me participate in your forum. I've spent weeks here reading and learning tons of topics on Morgan Dollars as I'm in the process of assessing and inventorying my collection. I'd appreciate any and all input on two coins I have which, I believe, are valued at over $500 each. They are both dented to some extent. Be Kind. I'm a just a NOOB. ;) Thanks!

1. I believe the attached 1892-CC is probably XF 40. It has slight luster and toning and is a nice looking coin for its condition. However I can't decide if I'm going to submit it to a TPG because it is dented on the Obverse as shown. I think it is a VAM3 due to the extra material in the 2. Is that a clashed date 2? It also appears to be a VAM-11 Slanted Date, CC Tilted Left.
1892-obv.jpg
1892-obv.jpg (180.92 KiB) Viewed 1609 times
1892-dent.jpg
1892-dent.jpg (116.91 KiB) Viewed 1609 times

2. 1895-O. Same question. Should I submit this dented coin for grading? I believe this is a XF50. It has some luster on both sides but also has a rim dent at 11pm and on Reverse at 8pm. Just guessing but it's almost like it was shoveled with a coal shovel in the early days or caught in a Vegas Slot machine.
1895-obv.jpg
1895-obv.jpg (190.68 KiB) Viewed 1609 times
1895O-dent.jpg
1895O-dent.jpg (186.79 KiB) Viewed 1609 times
1895O-Rev.jpg
1895O-Rev.jpg (180.81 KiB) Viewed 1609 times
Thanks again for your input!

Chriskfla

Re: Dents in coins (6th photo)

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:02 pm
by chriskfla
1892-CC Reverse
1892-rev.jpg
1892-rev.jpg (195.24 KiB) Viewed 1608 times

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:07 pm
by DurhamJnKY
Personally, I don't think those dings are very detracting and wouldn't keep me from buying them. And since I'm not very good at determining grades yet, I leave it to the pros.

(On the 92 CC, check the clashed far dates and I think you'll find that 2.)

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:26 pm
by Dirtdoctor
I'm not sure you would get a grade on either of the coins because of the dents/rim damage, and those might be cleaned as well. If so, a third party grader (TPG) would give you a "details" classification, such as "AU Details" or "XF Details", followed by "Damaged" or "Cleaned"...

Nonetheless those are very tough years and mints, and as such are desirable despite the damage, which would detract from value. Have you used Photograde on PCGS to get an idea of where they fall in terms of the overall circulation wear? I'm not sure they would make AU level. You should take a look if you have not used this reference.

https://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/Morgan/Grades

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:20 pm
by morganman
:popcorn: My take; I always like to Anacs
slab better date lower grade &
detail Morgans, because you then
know grade/ problems etc
If you hate the outcome, simply
break em out to raw again
At least still assigns a details grade
to a coin so you get some sense of
numerical scale & can research
real value

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:07 am
by chriskfla
Thanks all. Yes I spent hours in photograde and found good comps. What an awesome resource! I then dropped my estimate down one grade to account for the dents.

Yes I think the 2 on the CC definitely has something going on from the mint. We’ll see.

Thanks for the anacs recommendation. I hadn’t considered that and will submit there.

“Genuine-Details-Damaged” doesn’t help me.

Once I get them back from anacs I’ll post the results to close the loop. Thanks again all.

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 5:20 pm
by Brabjohn
I’ve always struggled with rim dings. I’ve had some straight grade and some not. I’ve been told as long as it’s not into the dentils then it should grade but that not always true.

Anyone have better criteria to judge by?

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:44 am
by RogerB
A personal option is that both coins have been harshly cleaned or scrubbed - baking soda? (Notice the 'halos' around stars and inscriptions and the shiny appearance of the portrait and eagle's breast?) The edge damage and cleaning are enough to prevent anything more than a "details" authentication. ANACS is your most economical authentication option. Variety pickers might be less "picky" than more general date-mint collectors.

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:21 pm
by belmarbeach
Agree with the details grade, been cleaned and those dents are too obvious. However as mentioned, they are key dates and still a lot of design on the coins. Enjoy

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:47 pm
by chriskfla
Hey guys, they just came back. Thanks for recommending ANACS so at least I got a numerical grade. You guys were correct they were both cleaned. They’ve been sitting in a safety deposit box with many others for almost 60 years so whoever did it is probably way down the road. I’m looking to move them so I plan to post over in the BST section.

1892-CC VAM8A
EF45 Cleaned
http://www.anacs.com/Populations/CertVe ... rt=7212094

1895-O
AU50 Cleaned
http://www.anacs.com/Populations/CertVe ... rt=7212095

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 4:27 pm
by DHalladay
Both coins have an overall "look" that isn't right to my eye. Could be lighting or could be mild cleaning of some kind. Both have rim issues, the 1895-O moreso than the 1892-CC. I also see the 1892-CC more as a VF35.

I would be surprised if both coins were to get into problem-free holders – and not surprised if neither one did.

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 8:15 pm
by chriskfla
Thanks for your reply. The pictures above are definitely impacted by the light ring I used trying to get the best detail of the dents. If you hit the link at the anacs site you’ll see the graded coins although those pictures look terrible as well. none of the pictures show the real luster that these have which perhaps is why one got a slightly higher grade than you thought. I’m Shocked that anacs didn’t list them both as damaged because of the dents. Perhaps they’re not as bad as I thought. One commenter above referenced the dents not reaching denticles. Good luck to all.

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:15 pm
by RogerB
Edge dents such as on your coins usually result in a coin being rejected, or given a "details" label by the major authentication companies. Variety collectors are possibly less picky about coin condition and damage than regular collectors.

A ring light produces flat uniform lighting that suppresses surface detail. Try blocking part of the light with a piece of black tape to get a ore natural looking photo. You'll have to experiment.

Re: Dents in coins

Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 2:21 am
by tnytrrs2004
Been collecting Morgans for many years, and i found out the cleaning coins is a no no. if you wont to have you coins cleaned send them in to a grading company like NGC or PCGS and they will do it for you at a small cost after the grading cost. one last thing if your looking to keep these coins as part of your collection spend the money to have them graded if not sell them as is.
just my opinion. stay well.