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1921 Morgan

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:11 pm
by MarkyB
Help please with identify VAM. 17 berry reverse. A main PUP is the dot next to the 1 but my polishing lines and scratches don't match 1R. No die cracks (amazing). 5 bead necklace. TIA

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:50 pm
by DHalladay
Can you post a photo or two of the scribbles zones – the recessed areas above the talons on either side of the eagle's right (viewer's left) leg?

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:16 pm
by MarkyB
The LED's on my scope decided to quit last night. This is the best I could do at different angles and magnifications. Those zones appear clean except for between the talons. Thank you

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:54 pm
by DHalladay
Thanks for the pixs. The 2nd one has promise (the diagonal thing in the right opening). VAMs 1T and 1Z are the closest I can come right now.
I presume you have already checked to see whether the reeding is normal or wide?

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:39 pm
by MarkyB
Thanks. I will study those 2 VAMs and report back. I've never checked reeding. Time to get smart. I'll try to locate an article and/or compare to another Morgan.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:05 pm
by DHalladay
Comparison with other 1921 Morgans is the easiest way. Wide reeding coins become very obvious that way.

wide photo small.jpg
wide photo small.jpg (454.84 KiB) Viewed 2140 times

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:55 pm
by messydesk
DHalladay wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:05 pm
Comparison with other 1921 Morgans is the easiest way. Wide reeding coins become very obvious that way.
Second easiest way is to compare the reeds with the denticles. There are 150 denticles on either side. A wide reed coin has 157, so the reeds and denticles are almost spaced the same. The normal reed collar has 189, so the reed spacing is visibly much different from the denticle spacing. This works well for coins in slabs, assuming the edge is visible.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:53 pm
by MarkyB
I stacked 3 ea 21's and they are all the same but I will try the count thing later. I've ruled out VAM 1T and 1Z as some PUPs aren't there such as the line under the nose and the Right Wing Tip-S-T crack. I rechecked and absolutely no cracks around the lettering/stars. She does have junk in her ear though. Also, I finally can see the scribbles.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:06 pm
by DHalladay
This is really odd. That is a good scribbles shot, but I can't match it to anything in the scribbles guide. VAM 23 looks kind of close but...

The stuff inside the ear is very common on D1 reverse VAMs. In fact it may have been part of the master die.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:44 pm
by vamnuke
:popcorn:

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:47 am
by MarkyB
I went through every "scribbles" VAM. Discussion about 1AG lead me to a few more PUPs. Line from 5th right star to denticles just past 6th star (But I dont have x convergence of lines mentioned) and the line in the wreath. Lastly, found the left inside loop of O rather interesting. Cud?

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:24 am
by ljs123
My vote is 1AG.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:33 pm
by weth
ljs123 wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:24 am
My vote is 1AG.
I agree.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:57 pm
by DHalladay
Good job gentlemen!
I wish I could have been of more help, but my 1AG is out being reholdered.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:09 am
by MarkyB
Thanks for the assist all. Eventually she'll make her way to ANACS and I'll suggest 1AG on the form.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:35 pm
by vamsterdam
" i found the top inside loop of O interesting. CUD?" a cud involved the rim and shank of the die. a 1921s vam 1h4 is an example of a cud.

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:43 pm
by MarkyB
vamsterdam wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:35 pm
" i found the top inside loop of O interesting. CUD?" a cud involved the rim and shank of the die. a 1921s vam 1h4 is an example of a cud.
Thanks. Good to know but is that not an anomally? Is it a chip? Ignore it for the purpose of identifying a variety?

Re: 1921 Morgan

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:19 pm
by vamsterdam
not entirely sure what you are pointing out but i think you mean the doubling of the lettering. this is endemic to all 1921's.