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86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:19 pm
by messydesk
Here's a potential new 1886 I'm considering listing. Checking to see if anyone has seen it before on a coin they have. Date is at left half of normal position (LH3/RE4), nothing else interesting on the coin. If you've studied 1886 and know of this being associated with a currently listed VAM, let me know.
jb_86-a-1.jpg
jb_86-a-1.jpg (183.93 KiB) Viewed 1642 times
Going forward, I plan on posting most potential new VAMs here as a sanity check, especially if there isn't someone who has done in-depth study of a date, as is the case for 1886.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:33 pm
by Vam-mysterio
John
Vam 24

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:46 pm
by messydesk
Vam-mysterio wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:33 pm
John
Vam 24
Interesting. This would be an early die stage, then, without doubling inside the ear. Unfortunately, I think the VAM 24 listing is a "catch-all" for multiple die pairs that have a normal date and doubling on the ear.

Anyone else also have this on an 86 VAM 24?

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:17 pm
by Vam-mysterio
without doubling inside the ear. Unfortunately, I think the VAM 24 listing is a "catch-all" for multiple die pairs that have a normal date and doubling on the ear.

Unfortunately the 2002 plates
Only show the picture of the double ear
Without the discovery coin,
We probably would never know a true vam 24

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:41 pm
by LateDateMorganGuy
It would be interesting if someone could show the progression from EDS (w/o the doubled ear) to LDS (with doubled ear) of the same die pair so folks could see the transformation of the so-called doubled ear. I could likely do something with some 1902-Os for the so-called doubling at the outside of the ear lobe I guess. But this would not be the same as the inside bottom of the ear like the subject coin.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:48 pm
by raynat3
Alan,

Are you suggesting the 86 in question or any years’ ear doubling progression?

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:53 pm
by colwillys
Is JB talking DIE CHIP TY not the double ear ...CHIP CHIP and dip . I thinking their is to much reading and thought
going in to this ear . Die Chip .

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:00 pm
by LateDateMorganGuy
Ray, any year actually that makes the point.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 pm
by messydesk
LateDateMorganGuy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:00 pm
Ray, any year actually that makes the point.
Yes, the doubling around the inside edge of the ear tends to be die fatigue regardless of the date. If I had both an early and late die state in hand I could easily show this, but that seldom happens. When die fatigue causes a doubled ear, it seems to happen fairly quickly. A look around 1889 will show lots of doubled ears that are die fatigue, but few pictures of an EDS without a doubled ear.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:34 pm
by messydesk
colwillys wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:53 pm
Is JB talking DIE CHIP TY not the double ear ...CHIP CHIP and dip . I thinking their is to much reading and thought
going in to this ear . Die Chip .
On the coin in question, the only feature of note is the chip by TY. The die hadn't worn enough to cause the doubled ear, but apparently this chip is known on coins that have the doubled ear. Hope that explanation helps.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:05 am
by crabscrape
Houston, we have a problem?

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:35 am
by fogie
I have 2 (VSS) attributed 1886-P VAM-24 and 1 (ANACS) attributed 24A. They do not have the chip or any trace of same.

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:51 am
by Vam-mysterio
The 1886 date
Is a mess
Quite a few duplicate listings of the same
Variety
Just a different die stage
Expl: vam 23,vam 28
Also
The new vam 27A is a duplicate of vam 19lds!

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:22 pm
by Mhomei
Have you already eliminated V7?

Re: 86 Chip at TY

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:13 pm
by messydesk
Vam-mysterio wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:51 am
The 1886 date
Is a mess
Quite a few duplicate listings of the same
Variety
Just a different die stage
Expl: vam 23,vam 28
Also
The new vam 27A is a duplicate of vam 19lds!
I'm glad you're looking into this date in detail. It seems like most of the 86s I see that don't have repunching around the date are either VAM 6something (zillions struck) or 24, with dubious doubling on the ear and nothing else worth noting.